Drinking age lowered to 18?

[Shashakiro]

Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

There have been several people who posted who advocate reviving Prohibition, which is obviously insane, will never happen, and is only suggested by people who don't know the history of Prohibition and how horribly it wound up working out.

[Kekeb]

Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

Ahahahahaha, I just can't stop laughing at all the hypocrits I see in this thread. I see people saying the drinking age should be raised to __, and yet they were already drinking at age 18 OR LOWER.

Pathetic.

Well, the point of this thread just flew by you.

[rzr]

Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

I watched a very nice History Channel documentary on Prohibition. I wonder if those whose who advocate Prohibition know how much worse the country would be with it back in effect?

I think that logically releasing the bans on drugs and prostitution would be beneficial, too. I'm not advocating them, I firmly disagree with both. However, look at what prohibition did with crime. It actually increased it. So, wouldn't getting rid of the bans on drugs and prohibition cut back on crime the same way getting rid of prohibition did.

[MrRubix]

Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

Quick history lesson for those who may not know what happened during Prohibition in the 1920's:

Basically, Prohibition turned out to be a bitch to try to enforce. It had good intentions -- it wanted to kill off alcohol consumption to help improve labor productivity, curb domestic issues, shell away poverty, and help chip away at homicide-related issues. It was also meant to put the ingredients of alcoholic drinks to better use (many argued that using wheat to feed soldiers at war was better than using it to make booze). Unfortunately, Prohibition brought on extremely high crime rates, black markets for alcohol, and a growing disrespect for American law. People who wanted to drink basically found ways to do it anyway, only now they had to do it behind closed doors, and through rather shady means. This created an environment where social problems grew and basically took dumps on everyone. Crime lords began to take an active role in the underground black liquor market due to the huge profit potential. Bootlegged liquor was everywhere, and was even sold from homebrew manufacturers (which usually lacked quality and caused health problems for consumers).

It's also worth noting that drinking was seen as extremely forbidden and was thus in high demand. It was seen as glamorous. This brought on social changes such as the advent of Flappers (who were basically seen as the hedonistic "sluts of the 1920's") and speakeasies (places to purchase alcohol illegally). As demand soared and a new wave of liberal attitude swept the nation, drinking/purchasing/selling illegally only caused more corruption. Law enforcement agencies started accepting bribes, and yet fines and penalties for disobeying liquor laws become more severe. Prisons were overstuffed, health problems surged, and crime continued to remain high. Many otherwise law-abiding citizens "felt like criminals" due to their illegal purchases, and faith in the law diminished as it became clear that enforcement and punishment were erratic.

When the Great Depression hit, they decided to kill Prohibition off in order to help create legitimate jobs to help stimulate the economy.







Basically, Prohibition turned out to be very costly and it brought on more problems than it solved. Turning alcohol into a "forbidden fruit" is a very poor decision and has opposite intended effects. What DOES have favorable effects, however, is better education and controlled exposure. As Devonin stated earlier, we need to stop "teaching dumb" to 16 year olds. They are entirely capable of learning about the realistic implications of alcohol and how to use it responsibly, and I feel that simply barring 18 year olds from alcohol isn't going to do them a service. Making alcohol more accessible removes a lot of the glamour and appeal, and allows one to learn about its effects easier in an environment where they aren't yet in college. In college, it's easy to get carried away with alcohol if you haven't been exposed to it before.

It's like being released in a candy store with nobody watching after being told for years that the ****'s off the hook. The fact that something's being barred from you signals that there must be something intriguing about it -- something mysterious. Therefore, when we finally have access to it, we consume heavily and we waste nothing. That type of attitude needs to be curbed when it comes to alcohol, and simply using a high age limit isn't going to help. It's effectively the same as Prohibition for sub-21 year olds -- those who drink illegally are at risk of doing it more dangerously than if alcohol were legalized, which fosters an environment that facilitates drinking in moderation. Even if an 18 year old gets in too deep, he may be afraid to seek help due to potential legal ramifications. If the drinking age were lowered, this fear wouldn't be nearly so much of a problem. Resources would be easier to find and easier to access.

It basically comes down to the fact that drinking is always going to be big in our culture, at least as far as I can see. Alcoholic drinks are easy to make. They're profitable. People will find ways to drink if they want to, and it's not hard to get access to alcohol. The markets are ubiquitous and bustling. Do we really need the lessons of Prohibition to kick us in the ass multiple times before we learn that such policies simply don't work?

[gypsyboyPS3]

Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

i guess we can say the knocked up girls are going up by 30%

[OrganisM]

Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

1) Alcohol is not actually a poison any more than aspirin.

"The body sees the alcohol as a toxin..."

and in ANY volume.

As far as I understand it, alcohol poisoning might suggest that it is a poison. Particularly because rubbing alcohol is also an alcohol, and that's apparently a poison.

...and you are telling me that there are more drunk driving deaths in the US because of higher traffic volume? That's a ridiculous stretch, and I'd love to see the data to collaborate that one. I see nothing that could directly connect the two conclusively, and that's a big claim.

By that logic... well, China has a pretty large population, doesn't it? And a lot of those people are starting to be able to buy cars, right? Well, if China's population is three times or more of the US population, I expect to see three times the death rate from drunk driving, because the population and amount of traffic should directly correlate with the amount of deaths at a 1:1 ratio in comparison to the US and Canada.

[MrRubix]

Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

Alcohol is a poison. It is also a depressant.

[OrganisM]

Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

Do we really need the lessons of Prohibition to kick us in the ass multiple times before we learn that such policies simply don't work?

Yes, we need ten world wars, a thousand Prohibitions, and a few more plagues. That's how dangerously low the collective intelligence seems to be.

Once again, forgive my penchant for using such broad terms.

I mean, hell, think what a hundred people of a similar purpose of making life around them better have done. If the 6.7 billion people of this planet woke up and decided to work towards understanding and unity, we could have a better world in the space of 24 hours. A choice, nothing else. But... that's not going to happen.

The stupid will always be stupid, and it doesn't matter how much you brand a horse in the ass, it's not going to understand algebra any better.

[Magewout]

Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

"The body sees the alcohol as a toxin..."

and in ANY volume.

As far as I understand it, alcohol poisoning might suggest that it is a poison. Particularly because rubbing alcohol is also an alcohol, and that's apparently a poison.

...and you are telling me that there are more drunk driving deaths in the US because of higher traffic volume? That's a ridiculous stretch, and I'd love to see the data to collaborate that one. I see nothing that could directly connect the two conclusively, and that's a big claim.

By that logic... well, China has a pretty large population, doesn't it? And a lot of those people are starting to be able to buy cars, right? Well, if China's population is three times or more of the US population, I expect to see three times the death rate from drunk driving, because the population and amount of traffic should directly correlate with the amount of deaths at a 1:1 ratio in comparison to the US and Canada.

You can get water poisoning as well, doesn't mean it's poison. Small volumes of alcohol are beneficial for your health.

[Netjet!]

Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

i guess we can say the knocked up girls are going up by 30%

Quite ironically, when scientists compared sex rates from the 1970's to the 2005- era, the numbers dropped about 35% from 1970. So I don't expect much of an increase.

[MrRubix]

Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/alcoholandhealth.html

[OrganisM]

Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/alcoholandhealth.html

Only more good news for me, then.

[jewpinthethird]

Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

By the way, what is the point of drinking alcohol? I'm confused, honestly. I've thought about this a LOT, too.

Two shots of tequila, and you'll know.

[OrganisM]

Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

Two shots of tequila, and you'll know.

One week in Ireland and you'll know.

[Afrobean]

Re: Drinking age lowered to 18?

There have been several people who posted who advocate reviving Prohibition, which is obviously insane, will never happen, and is only suggested by people who don't know the history of Prohibition and how horribly it wound up working out.

Yet a strong parallel can be drawn to the modern "war on drugs", and despite the actual failure of this practice, people stand behind it regardless.

All it'd take is a group of stupid sheep to bring back prohibition, and I think the time is ripe for that type of populous to do this sort of thing. All it needs is the right spark.

And to interject a point: mature alcohol consumption is best learned through experience. This experience is easily achieved by direction from parents. This is most easily achieved before young adults strike out on their own. Let them strike out at 18, but not drink til 21, and that's when people fail to control themselves. They need to learn responsibility for this just like all things, and doing it on their own is a shortcut to failure.

If it were up to me, I'd say something along the lines of a permit system for alcohol purchase/consumption between 18 and 21. Maybe work it on a parental permission system. At the very least, all parents should be allowed (and encouraged) to actively teach their "children" to drink responsibly before they leave the nest.