The American Flag Comes... Second?

[ckj846]

Re: The American Flag Comes... Second?

They have the right to express themselves, don't they?

Is the flag thier property? If so then there is no problem here.

A flag is a symbol of a country. Some people take it way too seriously though. I don't really understand how people can be so patriotic that they get super offended over the smallest things. The flag is upside-down under the Mexican flag. SO WHAT? We know we are a better country, so it really shouldn't matter about material objects as much as our pride in the country. I'm neutral on this issue because honestly, I just don't care.
O_o

[siikduke]

Re: The American Flag Comes... Second?

They have the right to express themselves, don't they?

Is the flag thier property? If so then there is no problem here.

Ummm No. It was the school's property. So there is a problems. and why would you want to do that. This isn't Mexico. This isn't your land. You came over here, now why would you do that. That just pisses me off too.

[Eyoshi]

Re: The American Flag Comes... Second?

I think many people here already posted something of a similar opinion, but here it goes, anyway:

If the students were protesting about this immigration bill, why would they bring the American flag in display of their protest? By doing this, it seemed that they held a distaste against the United States in general, seeing as the flag is a symbol of this country.

The photos' impact on me would have been the opposite of those of the sender. These photos would give me the impression that they hate America, though they probably do not. But, still. The flag is most certainly not a symbol of the bill and therefore, should not be brought into the argument.

But, say that these photos appear in newspaper media. How would the public react? Would people be swayed to the student's side? And if those pictures were enough to persuade people to the protesting side, would there be the same effect if some other flag was used instead of the Mexican flag?

Okay, done with my ranting. It's just one thing when students just rush out to protest, but it's another when they give the rest of the country (including me) a slap to the face.

[Afrobean]

Re: The American Flag Comes... Second?

Some of you people need to learn some things about protests.

The flag does not symbolize the bill. This is true. The flag symbolizes the government of the country, the government who is trying to pass this legislation. They're using defamation of the flag to show dissatisfaction with the workings of the government. And what else can they do? Not like most high school students can even vote.

[nforcer06164]

Re: The American Flag Comes... Second?

Eyo, the purpose of the pictures being publicized was to enrage people. It was to encourage people to rally behind the bill.

Afro, the flag symbolizes the country as a whole, not just the government. You have to ask, why are they protesting? Do they even know why? If you are born in the United States, you are a U.S. citizen. I am willing to assume that many of the students were born in the U.S. Even if they weren't, or their parents aren't legal immigrants, it isn't that hard to get legal status, or citizenship. The bill is much more harsh on those that will try to enter than those that are already here. In fact, here's the current law, along with the bills in both houses:

• Current Law: Unlawful entry is a misdemeanor subject to six months in prison; unlawful re-entry after deportation is a felony, up to 10 years in prison.
  
  Employers who hire illegal immigrants knowing their status could pay a fine up to $3,000 per hire and spend up to six months in prison.
  
  House bill: Unlawful entry would become a felony, up to a year and a day in prison. Hiring illegal aliens would result in a fine up to $50,000.
  
  The law also includes: Reimbursing sheriffs for detaining illegal immigrants and deporting legal immigrants convicted of multiple DUIs.
  
  Requires all border patrol uniforms to be made in the U.S. Many are made in Mexico.
  
  Senate Judiciary bill: There would be no changes in the current laws regarding unlawful entry. Those who hire illegal immigrants could be fined up to $20,000 and face up to six months in prison.
  
  Immigrants in the U.S. as of January 2004 could apply for a six-year visa. At the end of the time, they could apply for a green card upon passing a background check, paying $2,000 and being employed.
  
  They could apply for citizenship after five years.
  
  The plan also calls for increased border patrols.

Now, what's not fair about either of those?

The flag is a symbol of our country. So, on a metaphorical level, it is our country. If we keep it on that level, then this is putting Mexico above us. Now, first off, what does that accomplish? They're putting the country they illegally fled from above the country they came to. If they don't like what the U.S. is doing, why are they still here? Are they afraid because the government is actually cracking down on something they've neglected for decades? Do they promote illegality? Do they think it's okay to break the law?

There is a Mosque in a suburb near mine. When 9/11 happened, many Muslims crowded in the parking lot, cheering and waving a burning American flag. The police put it down. Nevertheless, it was scary. That and this is nothing short of anarchy. It is true that you are allowed to peacefully protest the government's actions. But when you take it to America as a whole, then it gets to be a personal issue with Americans who want their lives better and safer. It's not up to the government or any of us to protect a minority just because they made a bad choice.

Does that make sense, now?

[Afrobean]

Re: The American Flag Comes... Second?

Does that make sense, now?

No.

You're misunderstanding it. It's not meant to be a personal attack. It's a way of drawing attention to the issue by using seemingly offensive imagery in an attempt to institute a change. Whether or not the change is reasonable or not, does not negate the students' rights to use symbols such as this.

[Grandiagod]

Re: The American Flag Comes... Second?

Technically the flag being flown upside down is considered a distress signal.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: The American Flag Comes... Second?

It's not meant to be a personal attack.

So? It is. If you urinated on a picture of Mohammed because you just didn't like the guy, the Muslim faith is going to take offense.

Also, the students had no right to do that to the school flag. Were it their own, this would be a very different matter. In that case, I would find it kind of stupid, but not AS inflammatory (I have mixed feelings on flagburning).

But still, as Eyoshi pointed out, doing so only turns people away from their cause and angers people to lash out against them. There are loads of ways to protest, but putting the American flag upside down underneath the Mexican flag? That does nothing but make people mad.

There's nothing "seemingly offensive" about it; it's downright offensive and it doesn't do ANYTHING to help their side. And yeah, I know that the United States is better than Mexico, but I'll be damned before I happily allow someone to desecrate a symbol of this country like they did.

Afro, you need to understand that just because it's a symbol doesn't mean it doesn't carry meaning or emotion.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[JurseyRider734]

Re: The American Flag Comes... Second?

If they like Mexico so much, why don't they just go back?

[Grandiagod]

Re: The American Flag Comes... Second?

Because mexico sucks, and while they are all "VIVA LA RAZA" you couldn't pay them to go back to that sh*thole.

[Snapps]

Re: The American Flag Comes... Second?



That white kid on the left is all like rofl where the hell am i

[jewpinthethird]

Re: The American Flag Comes... Second?

Okay, I'm white as you can get, so people of Latin descent might take offense to what I have to say, but I grew up in a mexican community and a majority of my friends are mexican. So it isnt like I'm just talking out of my ass here.

Those pictures you see there are the actions of Americans.

Mexicans who act like this are usually third generation. I know plenty of first and second generation immigrants. Most of them speak very poor english and many of them are illegal. But they are some of the hardest workers you will ever meet. They understand and appreciate how lucky they are to be living in America. You would probably never see a first or second generation immigrant ever deface an American flag.

Third generation immigrants are full-blown Americanized, usually. They dont appreciate what their parents or grandparents did by coming to America. And they are spoiled (not like rich-kid spoiled though). And this isnt just the case with people of Mexican heritage. This pretty much goes for every ethnic group (European, Asian, African, Middle Eastern, etc.) I, myself, have pride in my roots.

For awhile I was all about Ireland and whatnot...until I went there. But my last name is from dutch heritage...so now I am embracing those roots. I mean, what does it mean to be American? That's so boring.

[Skikamukazi]

Re: The American Flag Comes... Second?

**** Mexico, the place is a ****-hole.

[AasumDude]

Re: The American Flag Comes... Second?

So is America, where the national debt has raised over a trillion dollars, the American dollar dropped over 30 cents to the Canadian one (in like only 10 years!), and the Capitalist wheel is spun by the blood and sweat of the workers, and half as many people vote for American Idol as they do their next President.

[esupin]

Re: The American Flag Comes... Second?

and the Capitalist wheel is spun by the blood and sweat of the workers, and half as many people vote for American Idol as they do their next President.

I hate when people say that because people will vote hundreds and even thousands of times for American Idol. As long as they continue to show American TV shows and movies around the world, all is not lost. Last summer, I watched Ronin and Red Dragon while I was in China.

Edit- It's not like Mexico likes this either. They're actually growing concerned at the number of people leaving the country. Anyways, so says BBC World Service. Go NPR.