France

[Funnygurl555]

Re: France

That's the entire point of the "wat" remark though...there's a huge difference between being mad / pushing for censorship and straight up murdering someone because "you drew offense to my religion"

Choof's post is accurate and I should have expected this topic to be a non-starter. That said, most of you must understand that a significant portion of the Islamic faith is morally fucked up but y'all would rather stick your heads in the sand whether it's out of fear (wonder why) or because you don't think it's your problem. Well it might be some day sooner than you think, hence why I wanted to discuss this in the first place. Conflicts like these could be the precursor to something bigger and I think it's worth keeping an eye on.

you're using the actions of extremists to criticize an entire religion

[Dynam0]

Re: France

All abrahamic religions are morally evil and fucked up, I promise it's not just Islam. Think about baptists down south marrying off their 14 year old daughters. There are extremists of all types. Then there is my neighbour who is muslim and currently has 4 foster kids, of like 50 she's had over the years. She's done way more for Canadian society than 99% of people

For us specifically Dynamo, we live in a place where we have publicly funded Catholic schools. I went to one. That is a way bigger of a problem to me and bigger threat to my well being than random islamic extremists. There's literal religious indoctrination being provincially funded

I agree with you in that I think Islam is a net negative to society but I feel the same way about all religions. and honestly Catholics have a lot more influence on me personally so I'd rather talk about that

I went to a Catholic school as well and as soon as I learned about world religions that's when I knew it was all bs. I agree that our society is predominantly Judeo-Christian and the separation of church and state is not near complete enough. The important distinction here is that religious moderates in these faiths are effective at condemning the extreme interpretations of their holy books and a great deal of reform has taken place. Islam on the other hand...

you're using the actions of extremists to criticize an entire religion

Ah yes, the "not all Muslims" argument. Aside from the fact that Raeko is doing the same thing in her post (I'm not defending any religions btw they are all dumb at their core), this is just untrue.

If this is purely extremism and not representative of a significant portion the faith, why are Muslim leaders around the world consistently either silent or even in support of this behaviour? Why do polls conducted by Pew Research Centre confirm these views aren't in the extreme at all? Apostacy = death, that's a generally accepted view in the Muslim world. Homosexuality is no different. Don't even get me started on women's rights.

The founder of the religion was a warlord who conducted raids and gathered a following through the use of violence and barbarism. It is the only Abrahamic religion that describes how to conduct war. This is part of the reason why even the most liberal reformists have a hard time "interpreting" the Quran in a peaceful light.

[Funnygurl555]

Re: France

itt: islamophobia in 2020

i ain't doing this on the forums man. not again. this is straight up not okay though

[T-Force]

Re: France

Thread is being re-opened.
Please be mindful of people and their beliefs even if they're not represented in this thread. A close eye will be kept on this thread.

[Mollocephalus]

Re: France

itt: islamophobia in 2020

It's too easy to write off criticism of something as -phobia especially when you yourself brought nothing to the discussion. Elaborate your point!

[gold stinger]

Re: France

To play devil's advocate in discussion since I am not fully knowledgeable on an Islam standpoint, the "not all Muslims" argument also applies to western religions, like Christianity. There are extremists in Christianity that do some things I would argue are humanitarian violations, but are regarded as fair teachings, and there has been little to show in resolving the issues inherent in that, even in western countries.

I wonder if in the next 5-ish years or so, if USA's tune of "defund the police" will turn into "defund religion". The topic of having religion play a role in court politics in USA has already been visited multiple times.

I don't think the discussion was meant to be directed as 'islamophobia', but rather 'the concentration of extremists in this particular religion is higher than the concentration of extremists in other religions, and xxxxxxxxxx is the reason'. I agree with Dynam0's POV that the controversy started because some people decided to kill instead of properly protest, and they are wrong for that, despite their reasoning being religion. I disagree however, that the cause/reason is purely religion-based. There's a lot going on right now. There's lockdowns from the virus. Job loss due to the pandemic. Charlie Hebdo is not necessarily helping that tension, but have the freedom of expression to do so.

[SputnikOwns]

Re: France

It's funny how one can just slap on a '-phobia' suffix onto anything and suddenly it's a terrible thing to criticize it.

I'm definitely 'Islamophobic' against the religion in general, not all of its adherents. The Islamic world is going to have to come to grips with the fact that we can draw Muhammed whenever we like, and that Sharia Law has no place in our superior cultures.

That said, of course there are a large number of moderate Muslims who I have no problem with at all. We should all be judged as individuals.

[gold stinger]

Re: France

Sharia Law has no place in our superior cultures.

Oof. That reads like a trainwreck.

I do believe that the 'marriage' between law, politics, and religion should be dropped, given the surface level of concern I've experienced with religion affecting politics & law in other countries (USA for example). Not even based on what laws are derived from religion, just the bias associated with it.

[the sun fan]

Re: France

Islam itself is not a problem ok bye

Ok hello again
I'm not going to type a bunch of words here but yes, religion and freedoms have come to a head, and they will again
Fanaticism is the problem here. I dont expect people to immediately agree with it, but I maintain that it is true. A few hundred years ago, some of the first Europeans to settle in America had vastly different ideas about Christianity (with regard to either political or community enforcement) than modern day.

It will take time before religious fervor dies out due to modernism. This has been true of every religion to a large extent. I do not see a reason why Islam would be different.

I cant claim to be an expert on French culture, or really even knew that there were classes on freedom of expression being taught by mandate in French schools. I believe I can see how this unfortunate event will spur on others like it, perhaps.

Funnily enough, this is in direct counter to some things I typed a few years ago, before anyone calls me a hypocrite. I've since changed my view on the matter after learning a bit more in school.

[Dynam0]

Re: France

our superior cultures.

I agree that's over the line...careful

Also, the intended purpose of this thread isn't to shit-talk Islam or religion in general (although it might be an eventuality I didn't foresee). I was hoping to discuss the political implications this conflict might bring to boil if it continues.

Macron (France) and Erdogan (Turkey) have been tossing barbs at each other and of course Charlie Hebdo goes and publishes a satirical image of Erdogan, pissing more people off in the process. How silly would it be if a magazine publisher starts WWIII because they trolled too much lol

[choof]

Re: France

It's funny how one can just slap on a '-phobia' suffix onto anything and suddenly it's a terrible thing to criticize it.

I'm definitely 'Islamophobic' against the religion in general, not all of its adherents. The Islamic world is going to have to come to grips with the fact that we can draw Muhammed whenever we like, and that Sharia Law has no place in our superior cultures.

That said, of course there are a large number of moderate Muslims who I have no problem with at all. We should all be judged as individuals.

doesn't sharia law line up with a lot of the stuff that the right peddles, like anti-lgbt rhetoric, anti-transgender rhetoric, anti-women rhetoric, etc? I know you're a trump supporter, like aren't all of these things you would want lol.

[choof]

Re: France

did i say something lmao

y'all realize how offensive drawing prophet muhammad-- who first of all shouldn't be drawn in the first place-- NAKED is? like... dude, muslims were ENRAGED. in islam it's very important not to draw or take pictures of important figures so that they're not idolized

edit: or... i guess ridiculed too

I really cannot get into this mindset because I cannot fathom being so enraged at a comic it gives me a visceral reaction, especially when that comic is about something that doesn't even exist

[choof]

Re: France

itt: islamophobia in 2020

i ain't doing this on the forums man. not again. this is straight up not okay though

you should be afraid of any large religion, all they are good for are subjugating the masses and denying rights to marginalized groups

[choof]

Re: France

and that Sharia Law has no place in our superior cultures.

That said, of course there are a large number of moderate Muslims who I have no problem with at all. We should all be judged as individuals.

sounds like someone's hiding their /pol/ power level

[the sun fan]

Re: France

Also, the intended purpose of this thread isn't to shit-talk Islam or religion in general (although it might be an eventuality I didn't foresee). I was hoping to discuss the political implications this conflict might bring to boil if it continues.

I think all of it will ultimately just bring higher tensions, and that's all
This is, in a way, a ripple effect of the original Hebdo publication, so you can say that its simply a continuation or a rekindling rather than something new.

I highly, highly doubt a publishing company is going to start WWIII, though its been done before, War is not something that is formally declared anymore by the West, so I don't really think it would develop in a way that could lead to WWIII when I think there are bigger, hotbox issues involving Russia and China's tensions with the West.

In a weird way, I feel like I can only see a few hundred years ahead, rather than a few months ahead.