George Floyd 2: Electric Pigaloo

[the sun fan]

Re: George Floyd 2: Electric Pigaloo

If he says he would have done his job i.e. arrest them, often for incarceration, do you think that's that's an acceptable thing for him to do, especially in a way that is disproportionately harsh on people of color, especially when a few states over the same drug is so important it's declared an essential business during a pandemic?

"acceptable" is a difficult word for me to talk about

if he believes it, even if I don't, and its not because of malice or something, I can still look him in the eye and enjoy talking to him/being around him

[ilikexd]

Re: George Floyd 2: Electric Pigaloo

"acceptable" is a difficult word for me to talk about

if he believes it, even if I don't, and its not because of malice or something, I can still look him in the eye and enjoy talking to him/being around him

What is malice if not the choice to deprive someone of their freedom?

[the sun fan]

Re: George Floyd 2: Electric Pigaloo

What is malice if not the choice to deprive someone of their freedom?

don't really think its malicious if he thought he was doing good

[DaBackpack]

Re: George Floyd 2: Electric Pigaloo

It might be easier to navigate if we're more precise about the issue.

Personally, I don't really find holistic markers like "good person" and "bastard" super useful when it comes down to it. Your friend might, in general, be "a good person." When we say ACAB, it's a statement that "being a cop" is de facto a negative character trait. There is no way to spin "being a cop" into a consistently positive trait. This is at the heart of ACAB.

Your friend might donate to charity, volunteer at pet shelters, and be a community leader. These are positive traits that reflect well on him. But at the end of the day, none of these things "cancel out" his being a cop. People can be both good and bad.

The question you should be asking isn't "is there an example of a cop that I think is a good person?", but rather "is there a good person who I thought was good BECAUSE he was a cop?"

"He seems like a sweet guy, but he's a police officer." This right here illustrates this nuance. "He's a police officer", in this case, is positioned to form a juxtaposition with the clause "He seems like a sweet guy." The cop-ness DETRACTS from the original premise of "He seems like a sweet guy." That is ACAB.

[Funnygurl555]

Re: George Floyd 2: Electric Pigaloo

it's cool that y'all are having talks about race but i'm starting to disagree with some stuff said here so here we go:

you can believe that acab while still valuing your friendship with a cop outside of their profession, imo.

for police, enforcing laws-- whether they agree with them or not-- is their responsibility. i wouldn't blame a cop for enforcing drug laws, so long as they did so indiscriminately (edit: does this happen? no). do i have an issue with drug laws period? yeah, but that's above cops' heads. there's some misguided anger going on here

[ilikexd]

Re: George Floyd 2: Electric Pigaloo

for police, enforcing laws-- whether they agree with them or not-- is their responsibility. i wouldn't blame a cop for enforcing drug laws

It is only their responsibility as far as them being a police officer is not a choice. This is the Nuremberg defense ("I was only enforcing orders"), except nobody is under duress to not desert their position, which means simply resigning in this case.

do i have an issue with drug laws period? yeah, but that's above cops' heads.

It's not higher than shoulder level.

[choof]

Re: George Floyd 2: Electric Pigaloo

for police, enforcing laws-- whether they agree with them or not-- is their responsibility. i wouldn't blame a cop for enforcing drug laws, so long as they did so indiscriminately (edit: does this happen? no). do i have an issue with drug laws period? yeah, but that's above cops' heads. there's some misguided anger going on here

the problem with "enforcing laws" is that cops are straight up killing ppl when enforcing them

[aperson]

Re: George Floyd 2: Electric Pigaloo

I-35 goes through my city. It was constructed at a time where redlining was a standard tactic of systemic racism. The black part of town was pushed to the east, the white part was pushed to the west. I-35 is an effective conduit that serves a lot of traffic. Regardless of how well or poorly it manages traffic flow, it still upholds the status quo of systemic racism by separating black and brown Austin from white Austin.

Being a cop is a lot like that interstate. Policing is an institution designed to uphold the status quo of systemic racism regardless of whether a cop is a good or bad person and regardless of whether they are a good or bad cop. The laws they are told to enforce and the criminal justice system that designs the punishment for those laws upholds systemic racism. Hiring cops with good hearts won't magically fix that problem.

[Funnygurl555]

Re: George Floyd 2: Electric Pigaloo

what i'm trying to get at is that police are enforcing laws that higher bodies of government put into effect. if you're angry about drug laws, direct your anger to policymakers. cops don't make the laws happen.

i'm not saying that cops are not to blame for issues surrounding policing in general.

It is only their responsibility as far as them being a police officer is not a choice. This is the Nuremberg defense ("I was only enforcing orders"), except nobody is under duress to not desert their position, which means simply resigning in this case.

this is gonna be an unfortunately controversial statement but it's human nature to follow authority even when there isn't anything significant to lose

[aperson]

Re: George Floyd 2: Electric Pigaloo

what i'm trying to get at is that police are enforcing laws that higher bodies of government put into effect. if you're angry about drug laws, direct your anger to policymakers. cops don't make the laws happen.

you can do both at once. and when you direct it at cops you lower their morale and they start quitting, which is what they're doing right now.

[mellonxcollie]

Re: George Floyd 2: Electric Pigaloo

https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confess...p-bb14d17bc759

I thought this article was pretty good

[choof]

Re: George Floyd 2: Electric Pigaloo

what i'm trying to get at is that police are enforcing laws that higher bodies of government put into effect. if you're angry about drug laws, direct your anger to policymakers. cops don't make the laws happen.

i'm not saying that cops are not to blame for issues surrounding policing in general.

the problem is that police don't enforce the laws equally in different demographics, and again, can act with impunity. even if we are able to get drug laws changed (the DEA profits off of the war on drugs btw so good luck with that shit lmao), that doesn't guarantee anything.

this is gonna be an unfortunately controversial statement but it's human nature to follow authority even when there isn't anything significant to lose

wat

[ilikexd]

Re: George Floyd 2: Electric Pigaloo

this is gonna be an unfortunately controversial statement but it's human nature to follow authority even when there isn't anything significant to lose

That's not a controversial statement because it's a true statement. It's an untenable argument as a moral excuse for the action because every single wrongdoing that humans do is attributable to their human nature.

When a police officer is stricken by irrational fear for their safety and kills somebody who is not a threat with unjustified force, they are doing so because it's human nature to use force during such fear. And as far as a police officer doing so is not following some innate nature, but rather their training, which is their authority, they are following their human nature by following authority.

If you want to excuse human actions for being human nature, you have to first deny human moral agency.

[Funnygurl555]

Re: George Floyd 2: Electric Pigaloo

the problem is that police don't enforce the laws equally in different demographics, and again, can act with impunity. even if we are able to get drug laws changed (the DEA profits off of the war on drugs btw so good luck with that shit lmao), that doesn't guarantee anything.

yeah, i agree with you here. it's just that i've read stuff in the thread where people were blaming cops for enforcing drug laws in the first place

wat

( ๑◔╰╯◔)

That's not a controversial statement because it's a true statement. It's an untenable argument as a moral excuse for the action because every single wrongdoing that humans do is attributable to their human nature.

When a police officer is stricken by irrational fear for their safety and kills somebody who is not a threat with unjustified force, they are doing so because it's human nature to use force during such fear. And as far as a police officer doing so is not following some innate nature, but rather their training, which is their authority, they are following their human nature by following authority.

If you want to excuse human actions for being human nature, you have to first deny human moral agency.

honestly idk how to continue arguing about this. i'm not the best with words

[roundbox]

Re: George Floyd 2: Electric Pigaloo

yeah, i agree with you here. it's just that i've read stuff in the thread where people were blaming cops for enforcing drug laws in the first place

I mean, there's the part where you can choose not to enforce a law you believe in. think about the repercussions of people who would be sent to jail for years for a minor drug offense
yes, a cop can choose to ignore them, but quotas are a real thing and they don't give a fuck. they're more likely to fulfill their quota instead of show compassion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification

this also exists within the power of citizens in the form of jury nullification