World of Warcraft

[Solid Dreams]

Re: World of Warcraft

I'm in a really nice, but small guild, so even though I'd like to do 25 man naxx I can't unless I drop a nice guild for a guild that's filled with people I don't like. :P

[Izzy]

Re: World of Warcraft

It was easy because it was a pug and it took 0 preparation and practice to do the boss encounter. Any random person in the game can get amazing crap.

[devonin]

Re: World of Warcraft

Any random person in the game can get amazing crap.

If your entire PUG were composed of 'random people' who hadn't already been in there repeatedly with groups that were much better geared than they were to -get- well geared enough that they could bring along random undergeared people without wiping on everything, you'd find an entirely different experience I'm sure.

[Izzy]

Re: World of Warcraft

No, that pretty much nails it on the head. Noone was doing more then 2k dps. Maybe a third have seen the fights before. Then again anyone can read or watch the encounters on youtube or wowhead.

In classic WoW if you wanted good gear you pretty much already had to have good gear. Then you had to pretty much write up a resume and do an interview with a guild. For a month or so you would be on trial in raids so that you could start getting dkp to save up for a piece of loot. Back then boss encounter strategy were a guilds close secret. Server firsts were something to brag about. You had to farm daily just for repair bills. The guild had to spend 100's of gold on potions just to get that tiny edge to be able to do the boss.

[devonin]

Re: World of Warcraft

Any guild that tried to institute something as moronic as dkp or a similar system can damn well raid without me. Thinking before you recruit someone completely removes the need for anything that stupid to hand out loot.

[Izzy]

Re: World of Warcraft

I don't think anyone uses dkp anymore, and clearly there is no need. Just saying how guilds used to do it. dkp was used because wasting a week of loot on someone just for them to leave the guild really set them behind. Not as much loot droped as does now.

Rolling on loot isn't cool though. I could have had alot of tier 7+ by now -_-;

[devonin]

Re: World of Warcraft

Rolling seems to me to be the only fair way to distribute loot. The trick is to just raid with people you know aren't stupid douches and there's no problems at all with it.

[Izzy]

Re: World of Warcraft

With rolling you can do naxx 100 times and have a chance to win nothing. Although its unlikely id still rather have an organized guild with dkp or seniority system.

[Sullyman2007]

Re: World of Warcraft

Even when I pug I don't normally have problems with looting. Every now and then a huntard will greed on a cloth BoP, but it's not a like I'm doing 25-man raids yet so I guess things change.

[tsugomaru]

Re: World of Warcraft

I stopped seeing DKP when BC came out. It didn't seem like a stupid rule back when you had 40 people, 10 or more rolling over the same item as you are. The one who has been on 30 raids is more deserving of it than a person who has ran it once.

Over the last few weeks, there has been drama brewing up in my guild although I was unaware of it. Our guild is composed of a couple groups of friend and we have enough to easily get a 10 man together. Not only that, all of us are decently well geared. The problem is however, we never have enough to do a guild 25 man run and we have to PUG it all the time. In the end, a lot of the high end gear never stayed within the guild or went to the people who worked hard to get the group going or to lead the raid. These people were pissed off and decided to gquit. My friends and I remained in the guild until it dwindled down to two groups of friend and in the end, we decided to leave.

The new guild I joined is the one I've been running 25 mans with. They, like my old guild, are composed of good group of friends and they don't send out guild invites to just anyone. People who get guild invites are trusted to stay within the guild, so we have only about 70 members with well over 2/3s of them being alts. However, when we run 25 mans, the loot master always keeps the high-end gear within the guild even if the guild member lost the roll to a PUG. It may seem unfair, but at the same time, I think it's a good solution to my guild's old problem. My old guild broke up because gear kept on leaving the guild on 25 man runs we organized. This guild keeps the high-end gear with people who will attend raids week after week instead of those who appear once for a raid, and then never show up ever again in weeks to come.

Not all gear should be distributed by rolling. It may seem like the more fair way, but at the same time, it's not. PUGs who show up to a raid that they didn't even bother organizing shouldn't be getting Saph or KT gear so that they have a shot of joining another guild who is farther in progression. Gear should go to the most loyal.

~Tsugomaru

[fido123]

Re: World of Warcraft

My guild just does the basic roll algorithm then on top of that takes into consideration how much of an upgrade the gear is to that person. They also check if that person has been rolling a not and hasn't been getting anything. If the other person resists fine but we've never run into that. If you just have a good group of mature people, who understand any upgrade for any member of the guild will help them, loot distribution is easy.

[devonin]

Re: World of Warcraft

PUGs who show up to a raid that they didn't even bother organizing shouldn't be getting Saph or KT gear

Why? Did they or did they not contribute just as much as everyone else in that fight to actually defeating that boss that dropped that piece of gear?

That's the bull**** logic I can't stand about how all the point-style systems work. The loot distribution should have no memory outside that current run. This run of Naxx/Whatever is a self-contained thing, if you come in to MY guild's runs and something drops that you want, you have an equal chance to win it as everyone else in the run who wants the item.

That said, we're also reasonably intelligent and mature people, if something drops that I want, and someone else is freaking out because OMG they've been trying for WEEKS to get that drop, and they're so happy and excited, I'm going to just NOT BE A DOUCHE and pass on it.

[tsugomaru]

Re: World of Warcraft

The guild tries to be as fair to PUGs as possible. They will most likely get any item the roll on until we get to Saph or KT. Once we're there, pretty much the only way you can get an item from them is if no one else in the guild needs it. Plenty of hunters have gotten the gun that drops off KT because every hunter who attends the raids have it already.

Devonin, you're a special case. You're not an asshat that rolls on every single piece of gear that drops. You're probably like me and don't roll on gear that's only a slight improvement and opting to pass it to PUGs or guildies in the group where it will be a huge improvement. There's nothing wrong with us. If everyone who plays WoW rolls like we do, then there would be no need for loot rules.

It's not always like that for all people. You will see people who roll on every single item that's an improvement for them and win 6-7 items. The loot master has to draw the line somewhere and decided whether or not to allow one person to win 6-7 items in one raid or split the gear evenly amongst the people who came. Instead of gearing one rogue with 6-7 items, you can gear 3 rogues with 2 items. As people leave the raid, one rogue may have a negative feel because he didn't get as much gear as he should have, but he still got gear. The other 2 will be satisfied as well because they also got gear that they worked hard for.

Not all PUGs are treated the same in my guild. They are able to tell the difference between a good and bad PUG. Our main tank died twice within the same KT fight and a random druid pug switched to bear form and tanked the rest of it. He got the gear he wanted over the other druid who decided it would be cool to stand in the circles. Attendance in a fight is not the same thing as actually helping in a fight.

~Tsugomaru

[fido123]

Re: World of Warcraft

What I implemented in my raid group is halving the rolls each time somebody gets a non teir upgrade. So if I win 2 items and roll a 100...roll 25.

EDIT: I mean when you roll on a teir item, it still halves your roll, however we don't cut up your roll.

[dood gone krazee]

Re: World of Warcraft

I dunno what's happening, but I'm getting massive lag all of a sudden, making play impossible.