MLG videogame league

[ToshX]

Re: MLG videogame league

I've gotten distracted in another game for a few weeks, more of like a break than getting distracted

I'll go eventually :/

I usually play SSBM a lot daily, and converted to a Sheik user a couple(well like 6) of months ago. Usually play competitively against my friends, but they're not getting any better, so the competition is dying off.

What character do you use? Post a vid when you're done, haha.

[ToshX]

Re: MLG videogame league

Well, I mean, I figure someone would record it, since it's frickin' MLG. I mean not officially, but SOMEONE will do it <.<

And yeah, every single Marth I've played against thus far hasn't stood a chance against Sheik. Sometimes I like to mess with 'em and let 'em get the first kill or two, but then I just bash them until they die. Or, sometimes I just bash them until they die, rofl.

Not quite as good against Fox, there're only like 3 Fox players I even know of around here -.-

[magister_negi_magi]

Re: MLG videogame league

I like fox better bc hes pretty much just as quick (sheik is faster) but 1.) fox has alot more power and he can finish guys off easier, (up+a+smash,left/right+a+smash), and also sheik sometimes it too fast for me. The best thing about sheik is that she has the best up+b move (when in zelda) and you still pull that off well by changing into zelda while falling and still recover with ease. And zelda isnt have bad either.

What? No, Fox is MUCH faster, Sheik just flows into moves more easily. The only way a Fox player could keep you in a combo is if he's a good Shiner(I'll assume you already know what Shining is). If you're good at powersheilding, you can actually faze the starting blow(assuming you're not already in the air) and screw up his game. If there's any character you're not good at fighting against, I can give you common strategies for them. Tourney-level Fox players always use the same style, so you don't have to worry. But seriously, DO NOT GET CAUGHT IN A FOX'S SHINE GAME. It will make you want to beat them up. But Shiek's the perfect anti-fox character, so don't worry too much.

EDIT: Aye, I read back. You play with Marth and Fox. Nevermind, make sure that YOU Shine, and don't act erratically with Marth. He's got baaaaad lag. Read and React is all I can suggest.

[ToshX]

Re: MLG videogame league

I'm a Sheik player, and yeah, I get shind blind if I'm not careful.

Got any strategy for that? Like ways to avoid it and crap? Because, you know, if you miss and he gets an attack it, you're already vulnerable.

[magister_negi_magi]

Re: MLG videogame league

Well, that's why I suggested getting really good at powershielding. Like, if you just block normally, and Fox(any character really) hits you with anything stronger than a jab attack, there's knockback, and with smashes, it's considerable. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, that period where neither of you can do anything for a moment(the attacker because of lag, you from absorbing the blow). Unless you've got +80% damage or so, none of Fox's tilt attacks will put you in the air, with the exception of tilt-up+A, but that knocks you completely vertically, putting Sheik high in the air, which gives you dominance, and Shine games only work on the ground, a couple feet in the air, or in the area past the edge(where they try to interrupt your recovery and push you to your doom). I see Shiners tend to smash far too much, because...well, Fox's tilt attacks aren't that great(tilt-down+A is great though), so it really only works on moves with lots of lag(which is any smash, really). But if you powershield the blow, there's no knockback, and you can cast off your shield almost immediately, and Fox will still be only halfway through his animation, and in Smash, that's a whole lotta time. It's really hard to do reliably, and I never just try to wait for Fox to smash to try and do it, it has to happen during the flow of battle, when you know he's going to do it.

One thing I don't see many people take advantage of is absorbing damage. To be honest, I didn't even realize it was useful until my brother started taking blows on purpose. I thought he was just being slow, but if I ever smashed or even tilt-up+A'd(I'm mainly a Sheik player as well), he'd crouch it, and then do a short dash and punish me while I was still recovering from lag. This is now part of regular game for me. If I come up against someone who is extremely good at dodging(even if you lay wait-traps), then I'll let them get one hit in, dash, then whatever combo I know works. Of course, it only works if your damage is low, and could be more harmful than beneficial. But if you come up against someone who can Shine-push(Shine, jump-cancel, wavedash while you're still recoiling, repeat until you're pushed off the edge, where you're his bitch), crouching can put it off(I've tried and it works, my brother Shines pretty well).

Let's see...the most ****ing annoying thing about Shining is that it negates whatever Fox is currently being hit by, unless it's formidably powerful, like a Warlock Punch, but who hits with that? Because of that, a big part of the game is to chase your opponent over the edge, then as they try to recover, Shine them back down towards the pit, and it works through everyone's up+B. Wait, lemme think about that...yeah. Everyone. Except Sheik(and possibly Yoshi). Sheik is the only character whose recovery attack causes him to be 100% invulnerable during execution, forcing that Shiner to use the edgehog technique. However, getting pushed off the edge at all puts you in a tough spot, and even with Sheik, it's difficult to recover.

I've got counter-games for other strageties, much more reliable as well, seeing as Shining is such a polished strategy. I can't really think of too much right now, it's still early morning, but if it hits me, I'll post it.

[ToshX]

Re: MLG videogame league

Hmm, the thing most of my friends hate about me is because I'm good at chaingrabbing(rofl no DI for you, I'll just grab you anyway). edgehogging, and edgeguarding. How much will that do against a good Fox?

Also, something annoying sometimes happens. When I'm doing the running forward A with Sheik(you know, the lunge), some people dodge down then C-Stick me in any direction they want with Fox. Is there really a way to get out of that besides just not using that move?

EDIT: Wow, this posted TEN TIMES IN A ROW. I deleted all of them, though. For some reason it deleted all of them with one deletion, and it said post #9 and post #10 like 5 times in a row each. Man, that was weird.

[magister_negi_magi]

Re: MLG videogame league

Shine game is a high-level Fox's main weapon. It's complete abuse of his reflector. It comes out in one frame, has MEGA high priority(which means if it clashes with another move, it will come out, and the opponent's move will get canceled), and can be jumped out of to cancel the lag of putting it down naturally. Wavedashing is where you jump, and as soon as you leave the ground, air dodge towards the ground in either direction. With some people, this is uber-fast transportation. Doing it correctly with Luigi can have you move almost twice as fast as Captain Falcon, and that's hella fast. Since Fox's relfector causes pushback, and you can jump out of it then wavedash towards your opponent, you can Shine someone to their death, among causing tons of pressure and anxiety to overwhelm your opponent. The very best Shiners can make it a one-sided match if they catch you ONCE. Ultimate Shiners(I've never met one, probably never will) can push you up on a wall, and do a Shine-jump-jump cancel into Shine-jump-jump cancel into Shine-etc etc sort of thing infinitely, but I have only seen even the best Shiners do it a maximum of about seven times, because the timing is super-strict, and the damage isn't really worth it. But getting caught in the game will probably get you killed guaranteed. But the ratio of Shining Foxes to Regular Foxes is about 1:30, I'd say, and even those that Shine may not have polished game. It's all a matter of fundamentals to beat a Fox's Shine game. Wavedashing against it usually won't help you, and mind games may only serve to get you unneccessarily hit, as most Shiners are extremely aggressive.

Really, just as Fox has his Shine game, almost every character has some technique that can make someone who doesn't expect it go "WTF?" Marth has monster chain-grabbing ability despite the fact that his throws are weak. Sheik, of course, can combo you for over 70% guaranteed damage in the right situation. Everyone has something like that that makes them formidable in the first place, it's just a matter of expounding upon basic skills.

Hmm, the thing most of my friends hate about me is because I'm good at chaingrabbing(rofl no DI for you, I'll just grab you anyway). edgehogging, and edgeguarding. How much will that do against a good Fox?

Throwing with Sheik is the ultimate setup. You probably already have your own game centered around it. For anyone, not just Fox, No Teching=No Win. Keep racking up combos while keeping on your toes for a possible combo break(some just tap the A button repeatedly while getting Sheik'd, hoping to find a break in combo and get in a neutral aerial kick to interrupt you).

As for guarding, while Shining is generally considered the ultimate attack style, it leaves much to be desired in terms of recovery. Defence isn't a problem, as the Reflector has retardedly high priority, and reflects. But since it doesn't help you recover at all, Fox is just as vulnerable to counter-recovery as anyone. You already know that Fox Fire goes a super-long distance, but its priority is extremely low, so low in fact, that needles can interrupt it entirely. If you've got the angle, then you can throw one and stop him from coming back. He can try to do it again, and you can throw another needle, and this could go on forever, if the Fox isn't thinking straight. Needles only go at one angle, but Fox Fire in eight, so with a little directional influence, he can get an angle steeper than your needles are capable of, and try to go straight up. That's where you edgehog him. Really, if you can get him off the stage, he's not coming back.

Also, something annoying sometimes happens. When I'm doing the running forward A with Sheik(you know, the lunge), some people dodge down then C-Stick me in any direction they want with Fox. Is there really a way to get out of that besides just not using that move?

Uh...well, the wait-traps I mentioned might come in handy there, unless they're really aggressive. If you know that they'd dodge it, just wait a little, not even a second, just expect them to dodge, then while they recover, punish them. I don't suggest canning the move, because its priority is on par with all of Fox's smashes, and it's (obviously) really quick. If that situation occured during the flow of a close-range fight, then wait-traps work there. If it was during an attempt to close the gap between you and your opponent, then two or three-way options are the way to go. It's fine to do it, but don't always do it. Try dashing towards them, and rather than lunge, jump to stall for time, then hit with your choice of an aerial attack. If they expect the lunge, and they dodge early, then the aerial move will connect. Really, one of the biggest advantages with Sheik is to think in place of your opponent. You already know what you want to do, so why not think as though you were fighting yourself? Most people already do it to a degree, but no one knows your style better than you, so you exactly how to defend against it, right? You may or may not want to try it; I've suggested it to some and they found themselves getting hit less often. Others just seemed to get hit more often than if they hadn't listened. To sum it up, the best thing is to know how your opponent thinks and reacts to things, and to know what options are available to you, dependant upon the situation. Acting wildly never helps, and it keeps your opponent on his toes.

[ToshX]

Re: MLG videogame league

Shine game, foxtrotting, Fox Combo, etc. mean getting someone in the air with a fox attack, shining them down to the ground, fastfalling, and doing it again.Shine game can also mean messing with your mind and shining often.

Wavedashing is like dodging, only it has less lag when you're finishing it. An example of when to wavedash is if you're doing a Marth vs. Marth game. Marth A C-Sticks right, but it isn't far enough to hit Marth B. Marth B wavedashes to the left and grabs Marth A, throws him, and does a Ken combo.

[ToshX]

Re: MLG videogame league

Wow we posted at the same time, I think you answered his questions, most likely.

EDIT: @Magister, actually, CF running is about the same speed of Luigi wavedashing perfectly. The difference is only .03 seconds.

[magister_negi_magi]

Re: MLG videogame league

EDIT: @Magister, actually, CF running is about the same speed of Luigi wavedashing perfectly. The difference is only .03 seconds.

I've never actually had a CF to test it against, but it just seemed to go a lot faster than him. Go figure.

[Tps222]

Re: MLG videogame league

I hit people with HR swings.

[magister_negi_magi]

Re: MLG videogame league

I hit people with HR swings.

Roffle. I've seen a Ganon who could consistently connect with Warlock punches. Seeing someone get HR'd in a tournament throws the whole place into a fit of laughter.

[magister_negi_magi]

Re: MLG videogame league

well the tourny doesnt allow items (which is good cuz i hate items). They are extremely cheap and items can make even the crappiest players win. One time i played agaisnt this jigglypuff where all he did was run to the items and kill everyone with that. It was extremely ***.

224% agreement. If you're in a tournament with items, you're in the wrong kind of tournament. Even on "Very Low", items can turn the tide of the fight, regardless of skill.

Another thing I thought of to combat Shiners: Fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals. Getting too fancy will get you dead. Keep a cool head, and don't risk things too much.

.......I'm sick of talking about Fox =/

[ToshX]

Re: MLG videogame league

I can connect a lot of CF's (normal B) attack, Falcon Punch. Nothing ticks your opponent off more than when they start teching then notice you know exactly what they're going to do.

But overall, I'm better as Sheik.