TWG XLV: Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game!

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  • Kefit
    FFR Player
    • Apr 2003
    • 1517

    #16
    Re: TWG XLV: Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game!

    I'm underage.

    Reimu and Marisa too maybe (and maybe Sakuya) but they get to be teenagers which makes the only people who actually care crazy conservative crackers.

    Everyone else is like 423762372881 years old.

    Anyway, I believe that the strongest use of the lottery guard at this moment is to simply have everyone pick themselves. If everyone has a single guard choice assigned to them, then the wolves have a 5% chance of hitting a guarded player (regardless of whom they choose), and negating their pick. The wolves will probably assume that lottery guard choices will pile up on stronger players, and thus avoid those players; this means that every lottery guard pick on a player that the wolves will avoid is a wasted pick, and thus lowers the chance of a successful guarding happening during the night. Thus, the highest chance of a successful guard occurs when the lottery picks are spread out amongst the players, rather than concentrated on obvious picks.

    And the easiest way to spread out these picks is to simply have everyone select themselves. It is what I intend to do tonight, unless someone can give a good argument against this line of thought.

    Of course, this means that I am valuing a successful guard pick over the life of a potentially strong player. Indeed, I believe that any additional play time the humans get from a successful guarding (as the consequence of that is a wasted wolfing and End of Game (EoG) for the wolves being pushed back) is worth more than the possible contribution of any specific player. History has shown that any player, no matter how esteemed and supposedly brilliant, can really suck hard-core in any given game. I've done it before, and so has everyone else. More time for the humans to figure things out is more likely to help us out than slight chance of a brilliant contribution from a specific player.

    Things might change in the future, when we have more info to go on (seerings, psychicings, wolf killings, lynchings, long-ass poorly constructed posts, godknowswhatelseinthisgameofanythingevercouldbeinit). For now, I see nothing better to do.

    Also, this game is going to require people to actually THINK FOR THEMSELVES. Anyone that comes out as any role could easily be a wolf, and no one will be able to raise an objection to it (remember, there could be two seers!). Alliances will be difficult to form, and finding anyone you can trust absolutely is going to be nigh impossible. So I implore you all - think for yourself, and don't just blindly follow the will of whatever leaders might appear.


    Originally posted by seinno
    and also thank you everone for clearing it up for me I will try to start using my two hands iv tried quit a bit i put my left hand index and middle finger middle finger is on the up arrow index on on left arrow and right hand i use my index for the down button and middle for the right button does that seem weird?

    Comment

    • DiscoBobbyPARANOiA
      FFR Player
      • Sep 2005
      • 1206

      #17
      Re: TWG XLV: Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game!

      Needs to be said:

      If you're an illegal role and you come out to someone randomly because you half-ass trust them, I'm going to slap the shit out of you when you get killed.


      Iggy911Mc (12:55:49 AM): Mudkip is a Koala Bear.

      Comment

      • StoicRoivaS
        FFR Player
        • May 2006
        • 548

        #18
        Re: TWG XLV: Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game!

        Unless I'm sorrily mistaken, where we place our guard votes doesn't mean jack if you're assuming random picking (i.e. no logic behind kills). If we stack the votes, there's a 1/20 chance that person gets picked to be killed, if we spread the votes, there's less of a chance the right guard vote is picked, and more of a chance to hit a "guarded" person. I'm pretty sure it balances out either way when you take the bob-is-a-better-player-and-thusly-more-likely-to-be-wolfed factor out of it.
        Like the moon over
        the day, my genius and brawn are
        wasted on these fools. ~Haiku
        -Bowser

        Comment

        • StoicRoivaS
          FFR Player
          • May 2006
          • 548

          #19
          Re: TWG XLV: Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game!

          Yes it's not 1/20, yes the wolves wouldn't vote to guard a human, etc, etc, etc. The point still stands I believe. Bed time now, we can discuss this more tomorrow if someone has compelling evidence one way or the other. I personally advocate using your best guess and doing what you think is right. If you have a reason to pick someone, do it. If you're unlikely to be attacked and haven't done anything to get attacked, don't pick yourself. If you're mid to upper-tiered and human, pick yourself. And so on.
          Like the moon over
          the day, my genius and brawn are
          wasted on these fools. ~Haiku
          -Bowser

          Comment

          • StoicRoivaS
            FFR Player
            • May 2006
            • 548

            #20
            Re: TWG XLV: Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game!

            Last post, then bed, promise.

            Odds are the same. Here's the brief run-through.

            Case 1: Everyone guard themselves.
            Odds of a guard are:
            (chance person A is attacked) * (chance person A's guard vote is picked)
            +
            (chance person B is attacked) * (chance person B's guard vote is picked)
            +
            (chance person C is attacked) * (chance person C's guard vote is picked)
            +
            ...

            Which works out to be:
            (1/16) * (1/20) + (1/16) * (1/20) + (1/16) * (1/20) + (1/16) * (1/20) +...
            16 times (the number of ways this could happen, i.e. # of humans)

            yielding: (1/16) * (1/20) * 16 = (1/20) total odds

            Case 2: Everyone guard person A.
            Odds of a guard are:
            (chance person A is attacked) * (chance person A's guard vote is picked)

            Which works out to be:
            (1/16) * (16/20) * 1
            (only one way for this to happen)

            yielding: (1/16) * (16/20) = (1/20) total odds

            So, assuming random kills (human only kills) odds are the same. But if we use our best intuition, we can probably hedge these down a lot.
            Like the moon over
            the day, my genius and brawn are
            wasted on these fools. ~Haiku
            -Bowser

            Comment

            • Kefit
              FFR Player
              • Apr 2003
              • 1517

              #21
              Re: TWG XLV: Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game!

              That is assuming random kills.

              I see absolutely no reason to think that the wolves would just randomly pick someone to kill. Maybe some crazy new wolf strat has come up while I have been away from the game, but I doubt that is the case.


              Originally posted by seinno
              and also thank you everone for clearing it up for me I will try to start using my two hands iv tried quit a bit i put my left hand index and middle finger middle finger is on the up arrow index on on left arrow and right hand i use my index for the down button and middle for the right button does that seem weird?

              Comment

              • Chromer
                Hookers and Blow
                • Jul 2003
                • 4981

                #22
                Re: TWG XLV: Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game!

                Kuso! Damnit, I get Yukari and them I forget to sign up. Let me hurry up and give Talisman Yukari so he can use her. -_-

                Comment

                • jwcgator
                  RIP ffrtokens
                  • May 2005
                  • 2221

                  #23
                  Re: TWG XLV: Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game!

                  Sup, night post.

                  PS. At school

                  Comment

                  • MilfeulleSakuraba
                    Ryoko Shintani is #1!
                    • Feb 2006
                    • 403

                    #24
                    Re: TWG XLV: Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game!

                    Because I have been asked this and haven't actually said anything about it in the thread (even though it has been discussed without my interjection), you are allowed to pick yourself for the guard lottery.

                    Comment

                    • talisman
                      Resident Penguin
                      FFR Simfile Author
                      • May 2003
                      • 4598

                      #25
                      Re: TWG XLV: Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game!

                      kefit is right, although (admittedly somewhat for my own selfish reasons) I think I'd rather see a scenario where people who are low on the wolfing target list cast their votes for someone higher.

                      Comment

                      • flawofhumanity
                        MMM WATCHA SAY
                        • Apr 2004
                        • 628

                        #26
                        Re: TWG XLV: Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game!

                        Ok, so I've weighed the pros and cons for my role, and I'm coming out. So, for my role I basically got a list of four names, and was told in a nutshell that one is blue, one is green, one is red, and one is illegal. Now, if I list the names, the people could come to me with their roles, and we could proceed by lynching whatever there is two of, which would most likely be blue. If we don't want to go that route we can always atleast start a semi alliance with whatever there AREN'T two of. It's very imperative that IF I come out, those 4 people come to me with their REAL roles.

                        I think our best bet is to start an alliance with roles that aren't repeated, therefore ensuring that they AREN'T wolves, as long as everyone cooperates. I'd like to see what people think about what I should do, and whether you guys have any better ideas before I come out with the names. I will however, be telling at least a few people the roles before night ends to ensure that we can still figure this out even if I die.
                        Originally posted by pntballa18
                        flaw cause he's well hung


                        Comment

                        • sertman
                          DADALADAH
                          FFR Simfile Author
                          • Jun 2005
                          • 3910

                          #27
                          Re: TWG XLV: Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game!

                          My guess is that if you're coming out, this is a one time role (i.e you only get that list once throughout the game) so coming out won't hurt the humans at all. However, why come out before the night ended? =(

                          I'm not sure if coming out with the names is a good idea... but a decision is going to have to be made fast just in case you're wolved tonight.

                          Comment

                          • DarkManticoreX2
                            TWG Overlord
                            • Apr 2005
                            • 7355

                            #28
                            Re: TWG XLV: Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game!

                            No matter what happens I think flaw should give the list to someone he trusts before the night is over.

                            With this lottery system there's still a possible chance of him getting wolved even if every human puts their guard on him.
                            AAA's = 800

                            Originally posted by V
                            Manti, I apologize for insulting you. Let the record show that I am a prickass douche, and not only that, but that I am a terrible player.

                            Comment

                            • talisman
                              Resident Penguin
                              FFR Simfile Author
                              • May 2003
                              • 4598

                              #29
                              Re: TWG XLV: Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game!

                              Haven't thought this through yet, but I'm thinking that posting the names (or revealing them publicly somehow) is a mistake, as it gives the wolves a good shot who two blues are (the blue and the illegal). Privately though I don't think there's anything wrong with talking to the people on your list and trying to get a read on them.

                              Comment

                              • StoicRoivaS
                                FFR Player
                                • May 2006
                                • 548

                                #30
                                Re: TWG XLV: Let's Play Danmaku Detective Game!

                                Hmm, interesting. I would have waited for day also, but do what you want. Like talisman said, this basically gives them 3 names and says 2 are blue, not a great thing. But on the other hand, if we get something rolling and find out we have a guard, losing a blue for a 3-4+ person alliance and a pegged wolf isn't a bad trade either. Am I missing something or is it more than possible to just contact these people in private and somehow reveal the results on the thread? If the blue is the overlap, we're still taking a small chance, but better than having all the names out there. I'd think that idea through for a bit and give it a try if no glaring downside shows up. I can't think of anything off hand (other than the risk of double blue).
                                Like the moon over
                                the day, my genius and brawn are
                                wasted on these fools. ~Haiku
                                -Bowser

                                Comment

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