TWG XXX Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

[PsYcHoZeRoSk8eR]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

Afrobean - WOLF

You will be shadowing Afrobean for this game. DO NOT tell anyone that you are shadowing him, and DO NOT talk to any other players about the game.

Not that it mattered, but I was shadowing Afro (incase you didn't realize by now). I had major internet problems for the first 2 days so I didn't even talk to him. All that I was able to do was send a pm to nforcer telling him my situation. Anyways, I'd still like to shadow since I completly failed to do so this game.

ps - gg humans

[User6773]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

What was I supposed to do? Reveal everyone who was working with with and reveal the list of people I didn't know about?? It wouldn't be productive, even my alliance members were kept in the dark.

The problem with what you did (and the reason why activity went down so much) is that you quickly announced that you were the leader of the humans, started forcing other people to take your word as sacred scripture, decided every day who was going to go, and threatened anyone who disagreed with you with death.

Wait, that's four problems. But they're all big problems. What you did (assume control of the humans and decided every day who lives and dies without consulting anyone) stifles activity among the humans like NOTHING else in the game. When people have someone else deciding who lives and who dies, they have no real reason to contribute anything at all. Their opinions mean dirt.

An alliance leader can certainly help the humans, but instead of trying to downplay your position as alliance leader in order to keep activity up, you made two ghastly blunders:
1) You showboated around as the alliance leader at almost every opportunity, in almost every post you made. This didn't do the humans ANY good and just got a lot of people pissed at you.
2) You threatened anyone who went against you with death. This means that people are either going to blindly parrot your opinions, or dissent (like blah) and get threatened with death even though he's not a wolf. I don't care if you had some stupid little reverse psychology plan in mind; it wasn't smart and it's certainly not worth risking the game on.

This had the effect of turning the game into you vs. prosecutor vs. wolves, and you won only because you got one wolf out of dumb luck, the prosecutor sold out a wolf and the last wolf gave up for no good reason. You were not the catalyst of victory for the humans, and you probably made things worse.

Learn from your mistakes.

[Wilkin]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

I am glad to have been, once again, a completely useless human in a human victory. 8)

Man, weirdass TWGs really blow, especially since I am never ever a weirdass role. I'm finding my interest in this game steadily declining. Whatever happened to the classics, where at least there were a ton of other people there for me to commiserate with in my role-generated mediocrity?

This got me started thinking about 26, where there were two wolves and a guardian. No seer coming out publically, no fake accounts, just good old-fashioned strategy. Plus, the guardian would have to act by himself most of the time, since an instant alliance would be out. It seemed like a much more exciting game, with the natural skill required without all of the special roles even getting people like Hans (pre-guarding) to be active.

I think the next game should be a lot calmer, if not back to the same style as 26. If we end up doing Blah's next, though, it'd be funny if Kilga still missed a special role, since half of the people would have one.

For the actual game though. Throughout my three games, I haven't gotten a single wolf right (Vash, Vash/Gamepro, Blah), and I'm hoping it's due to my lack of knowing you guys too well. I wish I could've been more help, and was quite flattered when I was the first seering. Maybe next game I can make more of a difference?

By the way, who did Necamus shadow? I'd like to hear some of his opinions on the game as well.

[Tasselfoot]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

Wilkin... 26 was a decent game. Wolves wound up winning even after 2 guards... that speaks pretty loudly about how well the humans work at pure deduction.

[talisman]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

tass is right... humans blow at just figuring people out based on nothing but kills. well I do, anyway. Some, like kefit, are pretty good.

humans work best around a seer-based alliance.

[Tasselfoot]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

tass is right

EXACTLY. And don't forget it.

[stretchypanda]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

Did anyone even question Iggy being the seer? The MW could have turned around and claimed to be seer, too, although that's been done.

And I understand the faith you guys put into alliances, but pretty much everything that's been said about them is true. As seen in this game, alliances just lead to blind humans following whoever comes out on top. A wolf who is good at pretending could easily worm his or her way into an alliance, find out the specials, and just go crazy on your trusting asses.

PS: If Andy had just picked Wilkin Night 2 game would have been over a long time ago.

[Tasselfoot]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

maybe. maybe not. but, probably. i'm glad he didn't. especially since wilkin was seered night 1.

[Kefit]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

I was questioning Iggy as the seer, but not all that much.

The only possibility for him to not be seer (or to not at least be a seered human in the alliance) was if Tass had been seer and had let this slip to a wolf on night 1. This would never ever happen with Tass though. I suppose that Iggy could have been MW and seen on the first night and then assumed the role of seer as a means to "protect" the real seer, but that would be rather unlikely, especially with the rather asinine way Iggy was running the alliance leader role.

However, whenever I went to Iggy and asked him to provide me with any evidence at all for his lynch choice or that he was actually the seer, he just blew me off with this secretive BS. I probably would have raised the possibility at some point, but I really never had a chance to do anything in this game past the end of day one.

[Kilgamayan]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

By the way, who did Necamus shadow? I'd like to hear some of his opinions on the game as well.

Me.

When I first saw the PM I kinda felt bad for him, getting stuck with the one guy most likely to not give a damn about anything (and then who ended up getting railroaded by schoolwork).

We never talked about anything. Hell, I couldn't even tell you him AIM screename.

Shadowing a green in this game was kinda dumb regardless, since iggy's dictatorship made everyone else's presence pointless beyond feeding him votes.

Wilkin... 26 was a decent game. Wolves wound up winning even after 2 guards... that speaks pretty loudly about how well the humans work at pure deduction.

That's because (almost) everyone here is a goddamn pussy. You've all gone soft in relying on special roles to hold your hand and steer the ship throughout the entire game. Obviously it's possible to work wolves out through deduction, because Kefit nailed chardish in Day 1 (blind luck or no, his reasoning was still solid). No seer information, no psychic imformation, no guarded players, not even some pansyass mystery PM. And he hasn't played in forever.

If anything, this is an indication that there needs to be more games with a lack of information-recieving special roles, like my wolfsbane/vigi game.

[Kefit]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

I liked this game because there were roles I had never seen before, and this gave me and others a good jumping off point for discussion and the crazy antics that these games bring.

The problem with the basic games you like is that they tend to result in a lot of people doing the equivalent of standing around in a room staring at each other, but having nothing to say. Not to say that a basic game can't work, of course, but I simply prefer games like this.

I suppose that if the non info giving role you would suggest is interesting enough to instigate discussion, then we are good to go. However, I remember simpler games back when I played being rather dead.

[JurseyRider734]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

This got me started thinking about 26, where there were two wolves and a guardian. No seer coming out publically, no fake accounts, just good old-fashioned strategy. Plus, the guardian would have to act by himself most of the time, since an instant alliance would be out. It seemed like a much more exciting game, with the natural skill required without all of the special roles even getting people like Hans (pre-guarding) to be active.

I think the next game should be a lot calmer, if not back to the same style as 26. If we end up doing Blah's next, though, it'd be funny if Kilga still missed a special role, since half of the people would have one.

For the actual game though. Throughout my three games, I haven't gotten a single wolf right (Vash, Vash/Gamepro, Blah), and I'm hoping it's due to my lack of knowing you guys too well. I wish I could've been more help, and was quite flattered when I was the first seering. Maybe next game I can make more of a difference?

I had tried about 3 times to host a normal, calm game and no one wanted to do that. I think I came close once to winning, but the people with the games with all these new roles and intricate stuff always won.

PS, you'll learn people's playing styles soon enough. I don't know about your activity during the games over AIM, but that usually helps.

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

Not that it mattered, but I was shadowing Afro (incase you didn't realize by now). I had major internet problems for the first 2 days so I didn't even talk to him. All that I was able to do was send a pm to nforcer telling him my situation. Anyways, I'd still like to shadow since I completly failed to do so this game.

ps - gg humans

Honestly, I forgot about that haha.

You didn't even contact me once during the game, did you?

[FishFishRevolution]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

Tass I really argued my head off with Iggy, but I was having a hard day and knew I couldn't convince the whole thread that I wasn't the master wolf. What i could have done is seen who the thread wanted to vote off, and if it was Guido, I could've wolfed iggy (I wasn't sure the guardian was dead, but I was going to take that chance anyway). He probably would have told somebody it was me, but yeah. I was just too busy IRL to deal with it.

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

ps 26 is the game I hosted, right?

Only reason that was even played was because no one else wanted to host.

Really, I agree that simpler games are more fun. Alliances are stupid (even when I'm on the winning side of an alliance win...). However, the popular opinion is that alliances are the **** and the best game is one in which you win by doing nothing.

PPS I had a worry in the back of my mind that iggy wasn't the seer. I was pretty sure he was, but there was always the thing in the back of my mind. Good thing he wasn't too, he would have owned everyone if he was somehow the prosecutor.