TWG XXX Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

[User6773]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

Thoughts:

1) No one "nailed me" day 1 because my idea I thought was legitimately beneficial to the humans. After several hours of AIM discussion, it was realized that it was a bad idea, and went back on it. Hans lynched me for reasons he never really completely explained, and said that he voted for me after reading only pages 1 and 2 - not long enough to read my defense. That's not smart. I applaud the humans for getting me so quickly - but it was dumb luck, nothing more. If I were anyone else (and thus didn't know I was a wolf), I would have thought that killing me was a stupid idea.

In other words, you didn't "catch me in a lie" because I wasn't trying to lie. I was trying to appear as human as possible by putting forth a strategy that was good for the humans.

2) Fish and Guido should be ashamed of themselves for giving up. It's embarrassing.

3) I think the huge level of PMs from fake accounts kind of removes a lot of the fun from the game. It also removes the ballsiness of faking a role - when you fake a role, you've got to be prepared to take the fall if people don't buy it. Fake accounts let people fake roles without fear of penalty. I don't like it.

4) Iggy's behavior this whole game was reprehensible. He basically decided that he was going to make all the decisions for the humans and actually threatened anyone who disagreed with him with death. I'm not exaggerating.

Do not kill hans when day starts.
Anyone that votes him will be killed.
...
You will all learn tomorrow.

Refuse to tell anyone what you're thinking and then threaten to kill people who show dissent?

You won't be killed for posting, you WILL however be killed for not posting.

Threaten the inactive with death?

Based on certain developments via pm's and otherwise, I have decided to act upon lynching afro.

It is very vital that this happens quickly so do not hesitate, do not show mercy, imbrace the POWER of a bandwagon.

Hey, thanks for not even talking to me.

Kill someone without even telling them, before they have a chance to make a defense?

This is not the way the alliance leader is supposed to act. Iggy acted like a tyrant.

You can't point to these actions as smart just because you happened to win by dumb luck - especially since the prosecutor and two of the wolves gave up and voted for themselves.

P.S. Afro, do you understand that voting for yourself neither helps your case nor makes people suspect that they might have lynched a human?

The game idea is good, but it was played so terribly.

[Kilgamayan]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

PS Kilga was playing? LOL

not really rofl

Kefit42: dammit
Kefit42: where are people
Kefit42: this game desperately needs more activity
bjstrattonIM: I guess this is what happens when Tass dies Night 1
bjstrattonIM: No one yelling at everyone to be active
Kefit42: heh
bjstrattonIM: And thus no one being active just to shut him the hell up
Kefit42: heh
Kefit42: I was hoping that my relentless walls of text would spur people into action
bjstrattonIM: If anything
bjstrattonIM: Walls of text make me care less >_>
Kefit42: Most walls of text are fairly meaningless speculation though
Kefit42: mine are actual logical deductions
Kefit42: of course, most of FFR doesn't know what logic is in the first place >_>
bjstrattonIM: Yes, but to discern this, I would have to read them in the first place
bjstrattonIM: Which I usually have no desire to do 8)
Kefit42: what the hell
Kefit42: you play TWG and don't even read the thread?
bjstrattonIM: I read them eventually
bjstrattonIM: Usually when people bug me about voting
bjstrattonIM: But for the most part
bjstrattonIM: By the time I've finished reading a block of text
bjstrattonIM: I have forgotten the first part of it
bjstrattonIM: Going on to another one doesn't help at all >_>
Kefit42: oh
Kefit42: I guess that just goes to show how much effort actually helps in this game >_>
bjstrattonIM: I think I'm a special case
bjstrattonIM: I have almost zero patience for this kind of thing and a very short attention span
Kefit42: Why even play then?
Kefit42: I can't imagine it is very fun if that is the case
bjstrattonIM: It isn't, really
bjstrattonIM: I really only play for the sake of doing something competitive at this point
bjstrattonIM: The thinking behind the game went over my head about 15 games ago
bjstrattonIM: And I have never caught up
Kefit42: o
Kefit42: I have no idea what the current metagame environment is
Kefit42: Gives me more of an incentive to actually think about it
bjstrattonIM: It doesn't help that everyone only wants newfangled ****
bjstrattonIM: No one appreciates the classics
bjstrattonIM: Those are the kinds of games I will pay attention to, try in, and find myself enjoying
bjstrattonIM: But all this new stuff doesn't appeal to me in the slightest
Kefit42: Ah
Kefit42: I am the complete opposite
bjstrattonIM: It also doesn't help that I am very rarely not green
Kefit42: heh
Kefit42: I have that problem too
bjstrattonIM: I have been an FFR blue exactly twice
bjstrattonIM: Both times I was voted off on Day 1
Kefit42: lmao
Kefit42: hey hey Kefit was wolfed that means Kilga is a wolf googgo lynch
Kefit42: hey guys he was the seer x(
bjstrattonIM: That was at least almost decent reasoning
bjstrattonIM: The other one was just plain stupid
bjstrattonIM: There was absolutely no excuse for it
bjstrattonIM: And that was what pushed me over the edge and led to my eventual self-destruction from Staff status
Kefit42: o
Kefit42: I must have been away that game
bjstrattonIM: It was the mason pairs game

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

Afro, do you understand that voting for yourself neither helps your case nor makes people suspect that they might have lynched a human?

It's what I'd have done as human, so I did it.

I don't see the problem.

[talisman]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

chardish iggy did alot more behind the scenes than he showed. I don't think anyone really took those threats seriously. I didn't, anyway.

plus I'm not a big fan of alliance leaders explaining their votes necessarily. If you go back and reread the slew of games where tass was alliance leader and posted big lists and stuff... you'll notice patterns of how he refers to people in the alliance and not in the alliance. It's subtle, but it was there. (of course tass changed too... I think the last time he was alliance leader he made a point of saying he was just going to sit back and make unsubstantiated votes at the end of the day).

edit: also nothing wrong with fish giving up. Not like he could have done anything, he was as good as seered. Sort of like resigning in chess when you're ten moves out from mate.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

@Chardish: Yes I got soooo lucky. But my reasons for being a tyrant were understandable. I had the prospect of having up to three moles in my alliance. I COULD NOT tell anyone what I was doing. I lied a lot, told people (like hans) things that never happened because there were too many people that could have sold me out.

If you look at my alliance, I had a witness AND the MW in there. I needed to make sure the lynchings were people that weren't in the alliance. And since know one but blah knew who else was in the alliance (except I told wilkin that fish was in the alliance for security reasons).

And you look at those threats and I didn't act on any of them. Heck I told TPS he was safe, but didn't second guess lynching him because he was on the prosecutor list.

I said I would kill hans but had no intention of doing so. I thought he was human because of the simple reason that he was the first peron to disagree with what I was doing.

Like I said afro was THE SMARTEST lynch. I had all bases covered, it didn't matter if he made the best twg defense in history... under every circumstance it was a good idea to kill him. It was just a little luck that he turned out to be a wolf.

I thought I ran everything fine given the game's circumstances. If I revealed any reasons for killing anyone then the wolves could use it to find out where and what I was doing. It was just easier to point at someone and IM the crap out of people until that person was dead.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

If the PM about afro didn't come out I was going for fish. So what's the difference anyway?

And if people weren't throwing tps' name around I would have gone for guido.

In either case it was a win win.

[Kefit]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

I've gotta agree with Chardish about Iggy.

Iggy was glorywhoring, plain and simple. He is incredibly lucky that his actions did not backfire on him.

[blahblah18]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

yup, gotta say iggy, you did lots of stupid stuff and its why i yelled at you the entire game and was angry with yo uthe entire game...

I completely agree with Chardish that fake PM's are bad

[Kefit]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

I would be all for banning mystery/fake accounts/pms in future TWGs. They completely screwed up the integrity of this game, and certainly could do so in others.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

Eh. I think it added a whole 'nother level of intrigue to the game. I used mine to further my agenda and with the others that went out, there's no guarantee of trust and logical deduction of who made them was done. Although I do agree with chardish's final point about them, I've only been happy to see them executed.

Also, I don't think "integrity" is something that they can ruin...

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Tasselfoot]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

This is the thing about the fake PMs...

Talisman and TPS are f-ing stupid for using them... Fish is retarded for revealing he was behind the 1st account... Guido's actions were something I planned to do if I had been the prosecutor (I thought of it as soon as nForcer told me about his game... like 2 months ago).

Lets make this clear... FAKE PM ACCOUNTS WHEN YOU ARE HUMAN ONLY HURT THE HUMANS. TPS has done it 3-4 times now, and every single time it has led to him getting lynched. STOP MAKING FAKE PM ACCOUNTS when you are human. Only the non-humans (blues, reds, yellows) have a REASON to make and send PMs. TPS and Talisman only confused Iggy and made things more difficult for the humans to win.

I completely understand why Fish made his account, and I understand Guido's completely. I don't get ANY reason why Talisman or TPS did their thing. Like... fine, they wanted to try and get info from the real reds/yellows. BUT THAT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN!!! Fish's initial PM was doomed to fail. No intelligent Prosecutor would respond faithfully, and no wolf team would NOT backstab the prosecutor.

As far as Iggy's actions... he talked to me a lot during the game. I knew everything he was thinking. And from what I could tell, he NEVER considered lynching anyone who wasn't red/yellow from day 2 onward. Regardless of his style, that is an impressive feat. And his logic in explaining his reasoning to me was fairly solid.

As far as Chardish getting lynched day 1... some luck, but Kefit frickin' nailed a beautiful reason for lynching him.

Also... Guido's PM about Afro wound up hurting him, because it only left 1 wolf. It was not a smart move, for that reason. HAD there been 3 wolves, it would have been much more useful.

Finally... Fish and Guido giving up IS pathetic. Guido, you weren't mathematically eliminated... you shouldn't have given up. Fish... you were screwed, but still. Guido might have gotten lynched before you, given you more time to work an explanation out.... anything.

I kinda enjoyed being killed night 1... watching this game was awesome. I can't wait to play it again and live past night 1. Slightly upset that Blah didn't guard me. Oh well.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

I've already said, if I did what I wanted to do, this would have been a different game but it still would have been a human victory.

I'm sick of repeating myself kefit. I told you I HAD to keep the info to myself. I was very glad when you got wolfed even though activity went down a lot afterwards. What was I supposed to do? Reveal everyone who was working with with and reveal the list of people I didn't know about?? It wouldn't be productive, even my alliance members were kept in the dark.

But I'm not saying I was flawless. I took risks, they paid off greatly. Those same risks could have lost us the game. I did things in a way that people aren't used to, and it worked for me. It could have just as easily blown back into my face. But I wasn't going on a glory spree, I was just trying to be careful about revealing information mainly and using logic since there were so many fakes out there.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

Also... Guido's PM about Afro wound up hurting him, because it only left 1 wolf. It was not a smart move, for that reason. HAD there been 3 wolves, it would have been much more useful.

I thought it was a fairly reasonable assumption that there were still three wolves left, hence why I made it. After making the Afro one I knew that any more would hurt me because the first one put me back in front of the wolves.

As for the giving up, well, I was merely being realistic. I'd rather torch my own haystack and give my teammate the needle than burrow until the end of time.

That's how I roll, y0.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[talisman]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

pssh nothing wrong with my fake account. I didn't go public with it, and it helped iggy in nailing down who the other accounts were. And helped me just by watching the writing style etc.

it's when you go public and start distracting the whole game that it's disruptive. Mine was just a little diversion to make the people behind the names talk more. I wasn't going for concrete information... just info about who was making them.

[Tasselfoot]

Re: TWG 30 Postgame - HUMAN VICTORY!

Meh... I guess. It was more directed at TPS, who again gave a public display of stupidity. I talked to Guido shortly after the 2nd PM went out and was like, "talking to the wolves, are we?" and he was like "wasn't me." and I was like (to myself) "lol... must be TPS."