TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

[Not devonin]

Re: TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

Hey look my post is a bit up there ^

[Not devonin]

Re: TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

Alright, irresponsibly posting from work, much more slowly.

[Svaz]

Re: TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

Can I just say I'm a little floored Tambo's senpai was Resetti, of all characters? Did not see that coming.

I wasn't okay with the Cocoa lynch because she wasn't active at the point in time, but now that we've got one less wolf to deal with I'm okay with it.

The thing that rubbed me the wrong way is that there was, in fact, time to contribute to discussion in the posts she made, but she only bothered doing so in two of them.

That said, having been got this way several times myself, if it's not obvious: to determine alignment of any voter here is fallacious; unlike a normal wolf kill, not even wolves could do it for town cred (though I personally find this death useful in establishing the presence of wolves and not just third party teams, to all town-aligned roles).

The flips were surprising and I'm sad to see Raeko go.

Me too, but I'm honestly pretty impressed that Raeko picked a character that got such a cool power. That's arguably an optimal night death just for the additional reveal.

Either way let's just kill Antori in the most brutal of ways.

There is no fucking way we can go on with the game without taking care of this matter imo, and I'm not ok with just shelving it for a phase or two.

Yeah, I'm not particularly warm to the idea of leaving a killer out on the loose, though this may change if he actually says something, I kinda doubt it. Antori

[Not devonin]

Re: TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

So the question that I have, being unfamiliar with games of this complexity/third party factions, is whether there's an assumption of linked choices with Antori's power. It said

""Greetings Kurumi, Time waits for no one. Your eye is your lifespan. [Redacted]. Failure to [Redacted]/[Redacted] a kill will result in death. Three strikes and you are out. [Redacted]. [Redacted]. You have the choice to be [Redacted] or [Redacted]."

We seem to be taking to mean 'Failure to [redacted/redacted] a kill will result in death' to mean 'cause/prevent' or something? Like, he's got to choose to either kill or save somebody and if he whiffs he dies

And "You have the choice to be [Redacted] or [Redacted]" as being getting to choose whether to be town or wolf aligned.

Do things like this work such that he'd have to commit to being either a wolf-aligned killer or a town-aligned saver? Can he pick wolf or town and then also kill or save as either one?

If he had to either kill somebody or successfully actually guard a wolf kill, or DIE, obviously night 1 he'd have to kill somebody as town because he'd have no good info who to guard and not just die himself.

What I'm saying is: If he could have picked to be town aligned and had to kill somebody because the alternative was failing to guard and dying, do we possibly want to consider keeping him alive, guiding his choices better, and therefore having a guardian? Or is the fact that he'd kill somebody to save himself rather than come out to the thread or to H&H in private and say "what do you think I should do" enough to get rid of him anyway?

I saw some people d0 saying antori is often somebody who sort of goes off on his own, so we might have to kill him anyway even though we could possibly get guardings out of him?

[storn42]

Re: TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

friendly reminder to stop piling on antori so we dont insta him. want to hear from a lot of people today.

[Svaz]

Re: TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

Funnygurl giving up and un-giving up: That whole scenario is weird to me. When the dogpile looked real and she just defaulted to 'fine kill me, you'll regret it when I'm town' that made her look more wolfy to me, because I feel like a town would have kept at it right until the end. The fact that it basically -did- get votes off her to appeal to the guilt and later come running back with a reads list is also suspicious.

shadow_god voted for her, said 'do something!', she did something, Shadow_god was like 'okay cool' and unvoted. It felt a little bit rehearsed but with later stuff I don't think it was or implies much about Shadow.

First, I didn't see Shadowgod's posts as the thing that spurred her towards wanting to live. It was really more the presence of players she views as reliable on a personal level vs those she doesn't know or those she views as inherently inflammatory. Try re-reading that bit of thread again but ignoring Shadow's over the top posts (I think Lewdy just has a flair for the dramatic~).

Secondly, try viewing this scenario again but through a lens of like, "wow, I'm so excited to finally get to play with people again, and in such a big game" and not only are they generally not performing to your expectations, they're doing the most opposite thing of that conceivable. Is it really unreasonable to see spite as a motive here, should you toss concepts like "mechanics" and "town" and "wolves" aside?

Thirdly, I remember people just repeating "defend yourself!" at her over and over without really giving any material for her to do so with. I guess what I'm saying is: I'd be pretty irritated too, if it were me in that situation.

[Svaz]

Re: TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

Hmm, fair enough, sorry: unvote (but know you're on thin ice still Antori!!)

[Not devonin]

Re: TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

Wait, he has three strikes to be out. Yeah if he could have tried to guard somebody rather than kill somebody he absolutely should have for at -least- one night phase. Maybe two, before coming out and going "Hey guys, been trying to guard, and I either need to guard or kill tonight or I die, what do"

Not putting the vote on him right now because he needs to at least have a chance to speak before he gets killed. I think somebody said instas were off but nothing in the OP suggests to me that instas are off.

[Svaz]

Re: TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

OK, I can't just ignore this read from Antori's list:

10) Hateandhatred:
-i read so many of his posts and i still can't read into him at all and it makes me sad, i get genuine town feels from him just like i get with storn but not as much, i wouldn't rely on my read on him though, small town lean.

on the d0 confirmed innocent child

[Not devonin]

Re: TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

First, I didn't see Shadowgod's posts as the thing that spurred her towards wanting to live. It was really more the presence of players she views as reliable on a personal level vs those she doesn't know or those she views as inherently inflammatory. Try re-reading that bit of thread again but ignoring Shadow's over the top posts (I think Lewdy just has a flair for the dramatic~).

I don't think Shadow is what made her want to live. I just found the timing of 'vote for fg, fg says 'nevermind', sg says 'okay nevermind' and then the bandwagon shifting away to have been weird, but in the context of cocoa actually turning out to be a wolf, it doesn't cause me to actually wolf read them.

Thirdly, I remember people just repeating "defend yourself!" at her over and over without really giving any material for her to do so with. I guess what I'm saying is: I'd be pretty irritated too, if it were me in that situation.

For sure. And like I said in my first post, due to the fact that Cocoa was actually a wolf, I don't read Shadow suspiciously for it, and largely don't read Funny suspiciously for it. I just formulated those thoughts as I was reading the thread, but since I couldn't actually post until D1 when the substitution went through.

[Not devonin]

Re: TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

OK, I can't just ignore this read from Antori's list:

on the d0 confirmed innocent child

I read that and was also confused, but then I also remembered that Antori is...sometimes not the most observant person (Sorry Antori!) but yeah, it's weird for anybody to list a read on H&H that isn't "Lol town obv"

[storn42]

Re: TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

OK, I can't just ignore this read from Antori's list:

on the d0 confirmed innocent child

trust me. like everyone noticed,

[storn42]

Re: TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

So the question that I have, being unfamiliar with games of this complexity/third party factions, is whether there's an assumption of linked choices with Antori's power. It said

""Greetings Kurumi, Time waits for no one. Your eye is your lifespan. [Redacted]. Failure to [Redacted]/[Redacted] a kill will result in death. Three strikes and you are out. [Redacted]. [Redacted]. You have the choice to be [Redacted] or [Redacted]."

We seem to be taking to mean 'Failure to [redacted/redacted] a kill will result in death' to mean 'cause/prevent' or something? Like, he's got to choose to either kill or save somebody and if he whiffs he dies

And "You have the choice to be [Redacted] or [Redacted]" as being getting to choose whether to be town or wolf aligned.

Do things like this work such that he'd have to commit to being either a wolf-aligned killer or a town-aligned saver? Can he pick wolf or town and then also kill or save as either one?

If he had to either kill somebody or successfully actually guard a wolf kill, or DIE, obviously night 1 he'd have to kill somebody as town because he'd have no good info who to guard and not just die himself.

What I'm saying is: If he could have picked to be town aligned and had to kill somebody because the alternative was failing to guard and dying, do we possibly want to consider keeping him alive, guiding his choices better, and therefore having a guardian? Or is the fact that he'd kill somebody to save himself rather than come out to the thread or to H&H in private and say "what do you think I should do" enough to get rid of him anyway?

I saw some people d0 saying antori is often somebody who sort of goes off on his own, so we might have to kill him anyway even though we could possibly get guardings out of him?

I honestly doubt antori had the choice to be town or wolf. I believe he is an SK with some weird xiz rules. The choice he had to make is likely to be which additional power he wanted. Its common for SKs to get the choice of something like a bulletproof vest. Heres the thing though, he is causing people to die, and by the looks of it he has no choice but to kill. That is anti town no matter how you look at it. I have a really hard time believing he is a wolf as well. Its not out of the question, but it really feels a lot more like an SK then anything else.

[Not devonin]

Re: TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

Haku, H&H and Gold Stinger all voted for Soundwave, presumably because of suspicion around denying Haku's claim of sending an item.

Now that this has been cleared up and Soundwave confirmed getting a thing that Haku confirmed sending, do you three shift to "Soundwave's town"

I assume from what happened that they're both town, but I can conceive of the idea that they're not, though it seems a huge risk to set up that kind of confusion on purpose when it could have resulted in one of them dying as a presumed liar.

[Not devonin]

Re: TWG 187: Senpai [Game Thread]

I honestly doubt antori had the choice to be town or wolf. I believe he is an SK with some weird xiz rules. The choice he had to make is likely to be which additional power he wanted. Its common for SKs to get the choice of something like a bulletproof vest. Heres the thing though, he is causing people to die, and by the looks of it he has no choice but to kill. That is anti town no matter how you look at it. I have a really hard time believing he is a wolf as well. Its not out of the question, but it really feels a lot more like an SK then anything else.

I guess I'm stuck on the fact that it says "The choice to BE [x]/[y]" and not 'have' or 'get' and it meaning he could pick an alignment.

My read of his power having 'three strikes' before he actually dies, if that's what it means, means that his choice to kill right off the bat and not try to guard/do whatever the second option was makes him a huge liability for sure. We're in agreement there.

Antori gave mellon_collie a 'null' read, and he had 5 wolf reads in addition to Cocoa, so even choosing to kill, he picked an extremely weird person to kill given his own reads.