bunking revamp.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Re: bunking revamp.

Oh..... in that case I'm back to my original idea, that I see no reason for humans to want to bunk as there would be too little benefits and too much risk.

[CypherToorima]

Re: bunking revamp.

Well, in a no guardian game, and if tass(I'm just using him as an example) is human, and he knows he's going to get wolfed, he just bunks with someone.

Although, I must agree, the risk outwieghs the benefit.

[StoicRoivaS]

Re: bunking revamp.

Isn't the wolves "extra" kill rendered entirely useless if each human merely announces who they are staying with each night? As far as I can think there's no reason not to announce who you are bunking with, and there's no reason to hide it or lie really, so in what situation is the "extra" kill ever usefull to the wolves? If the wolves want to trade humans one for one, I think any team of humans would take them up on that deal.

Secondly, how exactly would the host word the night's results when a normal wolfing happens as well as an extra wolfing? Unless I'm totally missing the point, there is no useful application for bunking at all. As it is now, it offers the humans next to nothing, other than a way to sacrifice themselves for a wolf, and offers the wolves nothing in return as their "extra" kill is pointless unless they want to give up a wolf for a human. If anything it significantly hurts the humans because it allows two for one kills when the wolves pick well.

Let me know where I went wrong. Take care.

[FoJaR]

Re: bunking revamp.

if you announce who you're bunking with publicly, wolves get a double kill.

humans can get duped by wolves.

the wording would go "so and so's body was found in their house, and the body of so and so was found in the town square"

so you're saying that bunking is pointless because it hurts the wolves and it hurts the humans.... that's what we call balance.

[FoJaR]

Re: bunking revamp.

also: just because you say you're bunking with someone, doesnt mean you have to. you can make plans with someone and just never send the PM, or you can make plans with multiple people.

instead of thinking "why would i want to?" try thinking "how can i use this?"

there are strategies that both sides can use.

the key to this game, and i might shrink it down to 8 humans, instead of 10, is in who you trust.

the human strategy only works if you trust ONLY humans with the information. you let a wolf know that you're bunking with another wolf and they know not to take the kill. you let a wolf know you're bunking with a human and they have a chance for a double kill.

this game, like all others, is about getting people to trust you and using strategy. there are PLENTY of strategies you can use on both sides. it's not my job to come up with them for you.

you dont like the game, you dont have to play in it if it gets voted.

[StoicRoivaS]

Re: bunking revamp.

If I understand correctly, though, each person has a place that they can stay each night. We'll call it their house. The wolves make their nightly kill based on houses and not people. So unless they chose to do otherwise, each person is assumed to stay at their own house each night. If the wolves want someone dead, they PM the host with "Someone's house" and that person is dead, unless they bunked with someone else at SomeoneElse's house. This is how I understand it so far, or rather, this is what I think you're trying to get across, but you're wording it so terribly. So then the benefit (to the humans) of bunking would be the fact that occasionally a house may be left entirely empty, thus negating (or more accurately, wasting) the wolves kill for the night. The drawback is then that the wolves may sometimes get two kills from one house. Now back to my original questions on balances issues:

If each human announces who they are staying with but not where they are staying, this doesn't give the wolves a sure bet on a double kill, assuming my above assumptions are correct. This actually forces the wolves to take a large risk with their previously sure bet of always getting one person per night. They may get two people, but they may not get any. Please note I'm also assuming that person's X and Y cannot bunk anywhere but X and Y's homes.

Now my point earlier was that if every human announces who they are staying with (but not where), the wolves extra kill option is entirely nullified unless they want to trade one human for one wolf. If the two kill types are differently notated to the players by the host, as you said they were, that means the players will always be able to tell the difference between a night kill and an extra kill. So if players X and Y say that they are bunking together on the thread, and X turns up dead in the town square the next morning, it's a fairly safe bet that Y is a wolf. Yes, I understand what you pointed out about the double kill, but unless someone slips up and says where the two players are staying, it's statistically the same as the wolves getting a (certain) single kill every night. Half the time the wolves get a double and half the time they get no one, but depending on how risky the wolves want to play, they may not even attack that house at all, knowing that their kill might be wasted, but that's beside the point entirely. If each and every person who is bunking with someone on any given evening announces their bunkmate (but not location) the wolves extra kill is almost pointless. If the extra kill wins the game for the wolves, sure, it's obviously helpful in that situation, but otherwise, it's useless.

I'm in no way saying I don't like the idea. If it weren't for Kilga's wanting to host since forever ago I would have voted for this game, once some things have been cleared up. I love the idea and think it could be very playable with some tweaking. I'll help you work out the problems if you'd like. Take care.

[FoJaR]

Re: bunking revamp.

hm, what about having a wolf seer?

one of the wolves is the wolf seer, who before each kill at night gets to pick a house and see if anyone is inside. this is BEFORE the wolves pick their kill. this does give the wolves an advantage, but it would make it so that the humans couldnt just announce bunking.

and we could play this game with no cardflipping, or a psychic.

what do you think of that?

[FoJaR]

Re: bunking revamp.

oh and we could make it an 18 person game to give the humans more meat.

[FoJaR]

Re: bunking revamp.

i spent two hours this morning talking it over with stoic and i think we've figured it out.

2 wolves, 1 wolf seer, 1 zombie wolf, 1 tainted seer, 1 bookie, one illuminati trio, 1 zombie human, 2 blue millers, 1 red miller, 9 humans, a total of 22 people.

the wolf seer gets to see if there's "anyone home" at one house each night before the wolves pick their kill. he will not find out how many are inside, only if there is someone inside or not.

the zombie wolf and zombie human get two lives each.

the tainted seer is on the wolves's team, but starts out not knowing any of them. each night he may seer someone, and will find out if they are green, blue, or red. the tainted seer wins if the wolves win, but he does not have to be dead for the humans to win. once during the game, the tainted seer can perform a dark ritual, killing any player during the night cycle. the tainted seer can only perform the dark ritual if he is alone in his home. if performed in the first two days, teh dark ritual will succeed unless the player is in a guarded house. after the second day, the ritual will have a 50% success rate. the dark ritual will be announced as a dark ritual kill.

each night the bookie will bet on EITHER the wolfing or the lynching for the following day. if he is correct, he may raise any lynched player from the dead. the bookie is operating illegally. if his role becomes public, he immediately dies.

the illuminati trio is like a mason trio, except they can as a group make one guard each night. the illuminati trio cannot guard a house containing any of the trio.

millers are humans that will come up as a different color if the tainted seer asks for their role. blue millers come up blue, the red miller comes up red. the millers will not know that they are millers.

no card flipping.

the rules for bunking are as follows:

only two people may bunk together.

for the two people to bunk, they must BOTH send PMs that say who they are bunking with, and which of their houses they will be staying at. if the information doesnt match up, they end up not bunking together.

the wolves make their kill by the house, not by the person. they have a chance to miss, and a chance to score a bonus kill.

the illuminati will likewise guard by the house, not the person.

a wolf, should he convince a human to bunk with him, will have the option to kill his bunkmate. only one wolf may take advantage of this bonus kill per night.

all bodies will be found in the houses that they died in, with the exception of optional wolf kills. with these, the bodies will be found in the houses of the owners, UNLESS the bunking takes place at the house of the wolf and the house is guarded. in this case the wolf will not be able to get the body out of the house, and it will be discovered there.

in the morning, i will flip a coin 3 times, and if the same side comes up on each flip, i will send out PMs detailing to the bunkers whether or not the person they agreed to bunk with came over or not. otherwise, there was a blackout that night, and you wont know if the person came over/let you in or not. the wolves and tainted seer will always know if they succeeded in bunking.

there are to be no mystery PMs or instant messages. no night posting.

[FishFishRevolution]

Re: bunking revamp.

mofo i think this just might deserve a try!

[FoJaR]

Re: bunking revamp.

[StoicRoivaS]

Re: bunking revamp.

I'm sure a lot of purists will frown upon the set up but I think we can all at least agree it's a good change of pace from last game and should help to inspire activity more so than an "informationless" game. I'll play it for sure. It was rough trying to balance it but I think we took nearly everything into consideration and Ill be interested to see it played out. Peace.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Re: bunking revamp.

there are to be no mystery PMs or instant messages. no night posting.

No AIM means that everything ever discussed will have to be open to the public.

I can see that for bunking purposes but I think that's pretty crappy to take out AIM.

Otherwise, I don't care if the bunking rule is crap, this game has so many wacky things in it that I would play in it and dive into its strategies and such.

Purists for TWG are idiots IMO anyways. The current game is a "purist" type game and it's boring to play, boring to watch. Bring in the taint XD.

[FoJaR]

Re: bunking revamp.

no, there's AIM, just no mystery AIMs.. like, no messaging people with screenames like "the illuminati". you have to use your own screename at all times, be it on AIM or when you PM other players or post on the forum.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Re: bunking revamp.

oh, well those are standard rules now I think. After that game with the prosecuting team I think they made it so you couldn't use other means except that of your own.

Aight so I'm pumped for this game already but I have one question:

Say I'm the seer and I reveal myself publically and tell everyone to bunk with me except the guardian (so he can guard my house) wouldn't that stop all wolves from getting ANY kills? Or when people send in their PMs for bunking, they all have to be right with the right amount of people or nothing happens? (I.E. me, fish, guido, tps, talisman, tass all bunk together but tps is a wolf and he doesn't send in his PM. Does that mean that none of bunk or just everyone BUT tps?) I know I read it in your rules somewhere but that was for two people, not 3+.