Three-Way Mafia Wars

[User6773]

New game idea. This is sort of my revised idea of trying a tribal game. The mechanics are very much changed.

Hooray, everyone's a special role!

18 player game. Every player has a team allegiance.

The three teams are the Yakuza, the Triads, and the Mafia.

Each team has six players:
A boss, a hitman, two guardians, and two safetymen.

The boss of each clan is the keystone to the clan's success. If the boss of your clan dies, the opportunity for clan victory goes away. Each boss knows the identity of each other boss.

The hitman is the person who does the killing for his clan. Each night, the hitman gets one kill. Since the boss knows who the hitman for his clan is, the hitman and the boss can collaborate on kills. The hitman also knows the identity of each of the bosses.

Each guardian has the ability to guard any player against a kill from another clan. The guardians are specialized to guard against a particular clan. For example, if the Triad's Yakuza-guardian is guarding you, you can get killed by the Mafia or the Triads, but not by the Yakuza.

Each safetyman is invulnerable to kills from a particular group. For example, if you are the Triad's Yakuza-safetyman, you can get killed by the Mafia or the Triads, but not the Yakuza.

Thus, you have 18 players.
Yakuza boss
Yakuza hitman
Yakuza's Triad-guardian
Yakuza's Mafia-guardian
Yakuza's Triad-safetyman
Yakuza's Mafia-safetyman
Triad boss
Triad hitman
Triad's Yakuza-guardian
Triad's Mafia-guardian
Triad's Yakuza-safetyman
Triad's Mafia-safetyman
Mafia boss
Mafia hitman
Mafia's Yakuza-guardian
Mafia's Triad-guardian
Mafia's Yakuza-safetyman
Mafia's Triad-safetyman

NO PLAIN HUMANS!

Terminology time: If you're not a boss or hitman, you're an "innocent".

Each night, every one of the hitmen makes a kill. The catch is that: If a certain clan's hitman is still alive, that clan's boss cannot be killed by any other clan.

So if the Triad's hitman is alive, and the Yakuza hitman tries to kill the Triad boss, that kill will fail.

The mass number of guardians, safetymen, and potentially unkillable bosses means that even though there are three kills per night, it will be rare that all three happen.

It is not to the boss' advantage to publicly reveal the identity of the other bosses, because then the safetymen and guardians will come out to those bosses. If the enemy bosses are both being guarded then your chances of boss victory go out the door.

OBJECTIVES
For the boss and hitman to win, the bosses of the two other clans must be dead.

If you're an innocent: You win if the boss/hitman from your clan win. You can also win if all three hitmen are dead (because everyone is content living in a world without killing by organized gangs). This gives everyone a mutual lynch target: the hitmen. Everyone has to pretend to want the hitmen dead.

The irony is that the hitmen want to get the other hitmen lynched. This is very different from a normal TWG in this regard. Once a particular hitman is dead, this opens up the boss for a clean, easy kill. The bosses, then, also want to pick off the other hitmen.

So everyone in the game wants to kill the hitmen! It's just a matter of which ones. This is the "wolves-against-wolves" mechanic I wanted to work in the tribal game but just wouldn't.

If you're the boss, and your hitman dies, you're as good as dead if the other bosses know your hitman is dead. You'd have to get the other two bosses lynched in order to win. It's conceivable that you could win, but difficult.

If you're the hitman, and your boss gets lynched and you're still alive, you can still try to win solo by offing the other two hitmen/bosses. Difficult, but possible. Especially if one of the other clans is willing to help.

As with all my game ideas, now you go reread the thread before asking questions.

Questions? ; )

[evilbutterfly]

RE: Three-Way Mafia Wars

Lists are more organized and easy to understand. Tell me if this is right:

Right away: Bosses know each other. Bosses know their personal hitman. Everybody knows what clan they are on, but they don't know who else is there with them.

Night: Each living hitman targets somebody. Each guardian guards somebody, if they match up then yay guarded and everybody gets told who was attacked and who died.

Day: Everybody votes to try and off the hitmen. Alternately, if somehow a clan has gathered together they could work to off the other clan's bosses and go for the team win.

Only flaw I see is this: All the bosses say hey to each other right away and decide to win by killing the hitmen. All the bosses exchange names and then post the hitmen's names on the forums, where everybody lynches the hitmen and the game ends. I see no reason this wouldn't work, and therefore no reason why it wouldn't happen right away.

[talisman]

RE: Three-Way Mafia Wars

clarify kills a little more.

if a safetyman gets guarded and attacked... how does the host reveal that? would the fact that he wasn't killed be all that was told? would the fact that he was guarded be included but not that he was a safetyman? or would it be the fact that he was a safetyman be revealed but not that he was guarded? or would both pieces of info get passed on?

also, what's to stop a guardian from pm-ing or coming to people on aim like "I'm a yakuza guardian. Other yakuza guardian please come to me and guard me." ?

[QreepyBORIS]

RE: Three-Way Mafia Wars

No humans.

I creamed. I just did my damned laundry, too. =/


What happens when everyone tells what clan they're in? Because that will probably happen no matter what. Someone want to run through a scenario like that? I'm tired. :P

[User6773]

Re: RE: Three-Way Mafia Wars

Lists are more organized and easy to understand. Tell me if this is right:

Right away: Bosses know each other. Bosses know their personal hitman. Everybody knows what clan they are on, but they don't know who else is there with them.

Night: Each living hitman targets somebody. Each guardian guards somebody, if they match up then yay guarded and everybody gets told who was attacked and who died.

Day: Everybody votes to try and off the hitmen. Alternately, if somehow a clan has gathered together they could work to off the other clan's bosses and go for the team win.

Correct.

Only flaw I see is this: All the bosses say hey to each other right away and decide to win by killing the hitmen. All the bosses exchange names and then post the hitmen's names on the forums, where everybody lynches the hitmen and the game ends. I see no reason this wouldn't work, and therefore no reason why it wouldn't happen right away.

Doesn't work because if you're a boss, you only win if the other two bosses are dead. You don't win if all three hitmen are dead.

What happens when everyone tells what clan they're in? Because that will probably happen no matter what. Someone want to run through a scenario like that? I'm tired.

Probably you start getting offed by the hitmen from the opposing clans, so this isn't a smart idea. Either that or you start getting guarded by both guardians, who very desperately need to guard the hitmen on your clan to have a shot at clan victory.

The boss and the hitman know each other, and the other two bosses. This makes 4/18 players that they know. Out of the rest, there are 4 people on their clan and 10 on other clans. Considering especially that the guardians/safetymen are incapable of protecting you from your own clan, it's a smarter idea to kill someone from another clan than someone whose clan you're unsure of. Therefore, if you come out as Clan X, expect to get killed by Clans Y and Z. Secrecy and trust are essential.

With fewer people on Clan X it makes it easier to try to get the boss of that clan lynched, too.

clarify kills a little more.

if a safetyman gets guarded and attacked... how does the host reveal that? would the fact that he wasn't killed be all that was told? would the fact that he was guarded be included but not that he was a safetyman? or would it be the fact that he was a safetyman be revealed but not that he was guarded? or would both pieces of info get passed on?

Every kill tells you which team killed the person, but NOT why they didn't die. If it's publicly revealed that they didn't die because they're a safetyman, it becomes too easy for the other team to go back and finish the job. Thus, if the hitman from a certain clan dies, it will be fairly evident, and the guardians better have a good idea of who the boss is or else their clan loses that night.

also, what's to stop a guardian from pm-ing or coming to people on aim like "I'm a yakuza guardian. Other yakuza guardian please come to me and guard me." ?

Because then what's the point? That's:
a) two more confirmed non-hitmen. Remember, the bosses and hitmen from the other two teams want to find and kill the hitmen who aren't on their teams, and if everyone comes out as an innocent it becomes really easy to find them and kill them.
b) waste of the guardian's powers since the guardians are supposed to protect the hitman, thus making it more difficult to outright kill the boss.
c) If I'm Mafia, and you're a guardian that protects against the Mafia, what reason do I have to not kill you? Similarly, if I'm Mafia, and you're a guardian that protects against the Triad or Yakuza, I don't really give two damns that you're still alive, because you can't stop me.

Thus, if all the guardians come out, all the guardians get killed by the teams they're supposed to protect against.

[User6773]

Re: RE: Three-Way Mafia Wars

Day: Everybody votes to try and off the hitmen. Alternately, if somehow a clan has gathered together they could work to off the other clan's bosses and go for the team win.

Minor correction to previous statement: If you're the boss or the hitman on your clan, you don't want your clan's hitman to die.

If you're an innocent, you can win if all 3 hitmen die. So usually you want to get the other clan's hitmen before your own, since you can still win if the 2 enemy bosses die.

However, if your hitman goes down, then it's probably best to push to kill the other 2 hitmen also.

[Tasselfoot]

RE: Re: RE: Three-Way Mafia Wars

Mikey likey. Mikey will find some way to dominate. Mikey hugs Evey.

Seriously though... can the players of TWG be trusted to NOT reveal themselves, at least in tribe? I have no reason to NOT try and get this information from other players, regardless of my role. Should I get 4-5 players, I'd willingly sacrifice myself for the boss of my tribe, for a tribal win... (dead tribal members still win if their tribe wins, right? otherwise, this is moot). I get 5 tribes from other players, I post in the thread asking for my boss to contact me (thereby assuring i'm dead that night), and I tell him all the information that I found out. HUGE edge to my team.

And, it likely wouldn't just be me. It could be EVERYONE doing this. Frankly... we've proven before (twice now, i guess) that TWG players can't be trusted to keep their mouths shut when it comes to private information. I could see this quickly becoming Tribal II in terms of a game that gets canned on day 1.

[User6773]

RE: Re: RE: Three-Way Mafia Wars

Coming out for your clan actually makes it harder to win as a clan because of the fact that there are three teams. If the Mafia all come out, for example, then it's fairly easy for the Triad and Yakuza bosses (who know each other!) to agree to a temporary alliance to wipe out the Mafia.

Even if all three teams come out, I can definitely see a lot of power-playing going on to eliminate one team early.

Also, I doubt the bosses and hitmen want the teams to come out. If all the teams come out, then clan victory becomes far more difficult. I think the bosses and hitmen will want to try to keep the teams hidden as much as possible.

The fun thing about this game is that the bosses can only win through clan victory, so they will always push clan victory. This is a strong antidote to the fact that the majority of players (12 out of the 18) can more easily win simply by doing in the hitmen.

Tass, I know you're planning and scheming, but I recommend you reveal all potential exploits if you don't want this to get canned Day 1.

Note: A good strategy is one where you have a high chance of winning. Reveal those to me privately. An exploit is something where you essentially can't lose if everyone listens to you.

And don't say "tribes." Too much of a dark stain on that word ; )

[whorlichan]

RE: Re: RE: Three-Way Mafia Wars

THIS IS TASS:

Chardish, you missed the point where I said exactly what I'd do... ask everyone privately for their role, get 4-5 people's tribes, come out publically (ONLY me), get my boss to contact me, give him the roles of the others, and let him have an easier time for tribal win.

As I asked, and you did not answer... does a dead tribe member win still if their tribe wins? If they don't, my strategy is moot. I would imagine they would, but clarification would be nice.

/TASS

[nforcer06164]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Three-Way Mafia Wars

Chardish, you missed the point where I said exactly what I'd do... ask everyone privately for their role, get 4-5 people's tribes, come out publically (ONLY me), get my boss to contact me, give him the roles of the others, and let him have an easier time for tribal win.

But, Tass, you miss the painfully obvious point that if this is really your strategy, NOBODY will tell you their role/tribe. Why would somebody give their role/tribe away knowing you'll report to your boss and off them if they're not affiliated? It's a crap shoot for everyone. It turns it into Tass's game, and 2/3 of the players will die so long as the hitman survives. I think in the interest of self-preservation, nobody will give away their role and it will work out just as Chardish planned it.

I'd like to see this game in the TWG after next. No greens? A completely new and interesting idea? I'm all for it. With my green streak (that's not meant to be a joke), it's exactly what I'm looking for in a TWG.

[User6773]

Re: RE: Re: RE: Three-Way Mafia Wars

answer... does a dead tribe member win still if their tribe wins? If they don't, my strategy is moot. I would imagine they would, but clarification would be nice.

Yeah, dead clan members still win in clan victory. Similarly, hitman wins the game if he's dead and his boss finishes the game. Same with the boss dying and the hitman finishing the game.

Tass, I would never come out to you just because you're you, since there's a 12/17 possibility you're not on my team. Other people would be wise to do the same. Especially since your plan pushes clan victory.

[Tasselfoot]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Three-Way Mafia Wars

Yea, well... people always seem to tell me things. *shrugs*

[lightdarkness]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Three-Way Mafia Wars

bump

[FoJaR]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Three-Way Mafia Wars

even though i havent played in a jTWG yet, i would really like to play in this game coming up, because it looks fun, and who knows when it will come again.

if i can be granted a special dispensation, it would be wonderful.

if not, i understand.

[Tasselfoot]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Three-Way Mafia Wars

No offense (I don't know who you are), but this will be a VERY complex game, and as someone who hasn't played a jTWG before, let alone a TWG, you'll likely be over your head.

But again, I don't know who you are. It'll be up to TWC. It'll also be up to how easily we fill 18 slots.