POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system implemented?

[Tps222]

Simple. Do you want to keep TWG as it was, without a point system nor pips, or are you in favor of a point or MVP system.

[QreepyBORIS]

RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system implemen

While a point system could turn out to be interesting, I couldn't be so certain that it would be executed fairly and objectively. And MVP awards I am against for the same reason Chardish seems to be. So I vote that it stays the same.

[GuidoHunter]

RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system implemen

I know I wouldn't be at all encouraged by it. It's worthless as far as I'm concerned, but, then again, I don't need any motivation to try.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Afrobean]

RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system implemen

I like how 6 people have voted to add a points system, but didn't justify it.

I am against it. I said so before. However, if something is implemented, I'd rather see MVP pips than a score leaderboard.

[Tps222]

RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system implemen

Afro, in Democracy,you don't have to justify. Secret balloting is encouraged.

[Afrobean]

RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system implemen

Well, if I was TWC, I'd basically ignore the poll if people aren't posting too.

Hell, I could hop on like 8 different accounts and vote. Does that make them legit? Hell no.

[Tps222]

RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system implemen

Well, I mean, this is an invisible forum. You would have to apply and be accepted, LD has been away for a while, wouldn't happen.

[mead1]

RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system implemen

Ok then Afro, if you are going to throw such a fit about it, I'll explain my vote for the point system.

We have had many, many TWGs. We have tried many, many different variants. I think that some players are just starting to feel the monotony this game can sometime offer. I think a point system, while it wouldn't make the game more exciting, might encourage people to play a bit more. I think the TWC is going in the right direction with inactivity bans, but I think this could help as well.

Also, MVP=Bad. I don't remember who, but someone in the TWC thread said something about people just assuming they will never get an MVP. This is probably true. I know MVP wouldn't encourage me any, I'm just not good enough. Plus, it would give Tass legit things to put in his sig, and who wants Tass to have a longer sig?

[Tasselfoot]

RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system implemen

Mead: I was the one who said most people would assume they couldn't get MVP

Also: In regards to a point system... please read what I have written on the subject in the TWC thread. It explains why TWC has not voted in favor of a point system. The fact that it CAN NOT be done objectively. It would be quite biased, whether based on who is hosting, how much people post, how often people talk to the host, or any number of other factors.

Until someone can suggest a fair and accurate point system, it will not be implimented, even if 100% of us agree it is needed. I think it would help, and I'd love to have more statistics to analyze (I love stats!), but unless it can be done fairly and without points being thrown around arbitrarily, it won't be. Sorry. My suggestion for those who want one, try to create a point system that is objective and incorporates all aspects of the game into points. Good luck. And, I'll be happy to help work out details of it as well.

[Omeganitros]

RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system implemen

Point system: No.


However, I do like the MVP thing we have going now, where every game has an MVP, but they don't really get anything to show it and it's not official.

[evilbutterfly]

RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system implemen

You want justification for a vote? Here comes a shitload of it:

Point system > MVP pips

Why? Because I'm not going to get MVP. You're not going to get MVP. Those 3-4 guys over there are going to. MVP would discourage me from trying, because, like mead said, people like Tass would have sigs filled with pips whether I think they deserved them or not, and that would piss me off.

Point system, however, would award points for any sort of help, and it would give points to EVERYBODY. With points, I could see about how I lie in terms of helpfulness compared to other people. I know I wouldn't be the highest, but I sure as hell wouldn't be the lowest, and that's what matter. Also, you guys freaking out about how the points wouldn't accurately show who was really best: duh, no shit, Sherlock. Think about any game with points. Let's say we all played basketball and one of us was good at shooting, while the rest of us were super awesome at passing it to the shooter and blocking the other team's shots. After we win a game, it'd be like "oh, well Bob scored 68 points on his own, with the rest of his team averaging 4 points each! Bob is amazing!!" People completely disregard the other stats in favor of the one that shows a person in good/bad light, depending on what they want. It's kinda like how in soccer/hockey the goalie always takes the blame when a team loses but never gets any credit when the team wins.

Anywho, you guys say we need a system that wouldn't be so subjective, but without a points system, the only measurement we have is subjectivity. Right now people are like "well Tass is a good player" but we have no factual data to prove that. A point system would not be entirely objective, but it's a hell of a lot more objective than the nothing at all that we have right now. People would instead say "well Tass averages X points per game, so he's pretty good." Also, points would not make people try and solo the game like pips might, because there would be points or self and team objectives. The following is a list of things I would like to see in a point system:

For humans:
Winning/Surviving to the end
Team winning (worth the same as or more than yourself winning)
Number of teammates alive at endgame
Voting for a wolf (minimal points for this) (and to clarify, I mean that their final vote of the day is on a wolf)
Voting for and lynching a wolf

For special roles:
Successful guarding (massive points)
Seered wolf (not as massive points)
Successful bet as bookie (minimal points)
Wolf killed by vigi
Seered teammates alive at end of game (just an idea...)
More can be added for each role, this was just a sample, since I can't think of any blue roles that would earn points

For wolves:
Survived to end/winning
Team winning.
Teammates alive at end game.
Successful kill (not too much value)


As you see, you get points for things not relating just to yourself. Also, for the red/blue roles, I was thinking maybe any points of that nature could be weighted depending on how often you're a blue. Perhaps make them worth less point but multiply them by (number of times green/number of times blue). So if you're human 10 times in a row, then you're the seer and manage to correctly seer and lynch 2 wolves, you'll get massive points. On the other hand, if you're blue 10 games in a row and manage to seer 2 wolves, you'll get way less points.

Also, since some people obviously play more often than others, anybody who keeps track of these stats would do well to list not only overall points but also points per game. Hell, we could then break it down into PPG as each role and see if somebody is better as wolf or human, or see who is the best guardian/seer/whatever. I'd love to see statistics for these things and see how I compare.

So, is that system completely unreasonable? The only real issue I see is balancing it so that if somebody is lucky and gets blue/red a lot they won't have ridiculously high points because of it.

EDIT: Before I forget, the tilt thing that I mentioned in the TWC thread, where the host basically keeps a tally of who was helpful or not and applies a little curve to the points. It's kinda like MVP, but it assigns a number value to MVP. Like, if I came out as the seer (but wasn't) and got guarded then led the team to defeat because some guy in the alliance blabbed everything to a wolf friend of his and didn't tell me, maybe the host would give me some extra points for being cool and extra points perhaps to the wolf who tricked the human that was blabbing everything. And if the guy who was blabbing had done something noteable and might have gotten tilt points from the host, him blabbing would negate those (note: tilt would never give negative points, because that just isn't cool. However, good tilt and bad tilt would negate itself, so if you do something super awesome and then something super stupid, you may not get any points from the host)

It would be the little bit of subjectivity we'd need to make the point system a tad more fair. It'd be entirely up the host how and where to give the points, or even if they'd give them at all! Personally, if I host again and such a system is there, I would ask people to vote in the postgame (after some discussion) on who they think deserves the extra points, since, as a host, I wouldn't have been there for everything. Maybe one guy was behind the scenes convincing everybody to vote for the wolves and I just didn't know, so I would ask the players to decide.

[mead1]

RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system implemen

What eb said.

[QreepyBORIS]

Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system impl

What eb said.

Clearly a bandwagon vote. Wolf.

mead

[talisman]

RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system

I will support a point system that only awards points if your team wins. That's it. No need to stress individualism in any way... it just leads to jealousy and debate about when or when not to award points. Plus it increases stratification. People can say "you're obviously not a power player look you only have X points" or whatever.

So I voted no, keep it the same. And if there is a point system for team wins only (which is all I support) then I strongly discourage any kind of "official" sig thing like the pips. Maybe just in a spreadsheet or in a thread somewhere.

[nforcer06164]

RE: Re: RE: POLL: Do you want some sort of point/MVP system

I agree wholeheartedly with Talisman. A point system will only cause more controversy and postgame arguments. It's no better that the pip system. The bottom line is: why do we need it? The simple reasoning is, we don't. The whole idea of a point system arose out of a completely different argument (unless I missed something), so its conception was never justified in the first place. Although I think eb's point distribution is a good rough model for a system, the system all together will just cause problems, and the disadvantages will outweigh the benefits.