On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

[Charu]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

Yeah, this is probably one of the biggest reason why I stopped.

The other because I've done it myself and I don't wish to bad mouth anyone. I think I've been good about moderating myself the last few times I played, but meh.

Also just seeing the same type of crud on others mafia sites or spinoffs (ToS, Among us, ect) makes me believe there's really no avoiding it since the games at its core is all about lying and trying to clear yourself. It doesn't help that innocent players, when being pinned with being guilty for what they believe to be a "stupid" reason, are of course going to not think fondly of everyone accused.

Then there's the issue of when I see actual guilty players use this as a means to win. By name calling, attacking someone's thinking, ect. Like I said, I've done this before when I was considered a good wolf. It's... not right. I nor anyone should do that to get a win. It's playing dirty.

...

Was the last game that toxic? I didn't watch the game, lmao

[Charu]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

I guess I should expand, time for shower thoughts (literally as I type this)

The act of name calling or challenging someone's logic isn't the issue. It's how players go about it at an extreme negative angle to purposely provoke a player.

For example...

"The hell are you talking about? I've explained why I believe (player) is (guilty/notguilty) if you look at my previous posts!?"

To...

"What the fuck are you talking about you fucking moron? I've explained why I believe (player) is (guilty/notguilty) multiple fucking times. Learn how to read dipshit or stop being bad at the game."

Both convey the same message, but its pretty clear which one is intended to provoke a player negatively.

[Bolth mannn]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

Agreed^

[Charu]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

And for some people... That's just who they are, and I get it.

I might post more once I'm settled at work, lol

[Charu]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

Alright, now I'm on a keyboard at work, uh oh!

The "solution" to toxicity isn't some kind of rule that would make the problem go away. It's tied to player personality and as such, that's why I made a point about how some are just like that and it's in their normal dialect. I think censoring in general is a big no-no because it restricts who they are.

What I DO propose though is have players do what I've done in my last few games if this thread was made because someone insulted a player.

Moderate themselves accordingly. Or try to...

Read the post back and determine if your flavored post is attacking someone on a personal level. Leave in the curses and swearing and what have you, if the player finds that offensive, then that's their fault and not yours.

So that example above?

"What the fuck are you talking about you fucking moron? I've explained why I believe (player) is (guilty/notguilty) multiple fucking times. Learn how to read dipshit or stop being bad at the game."

Knock it down to this.

"What the fuck are you talking about? I've explained why I believe (player) is (guilty/notguilty) multiple fucking times. Please read my posts!"

It still gives that bite, but now you're not insulting the player. If the player feels insulted after that, then it's on them and not you.

[mellonxcollie]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

what about every time you want to use an insult you instead sub in a funny word like Gordon Ramsey

"you fucking donkey!" "you friggin donut!"

[Charu]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

However, emotion is a big part in these kind of games. When it gets tense, it gets TENSE. Size 4 and bold and everything! It's really really REALLY easy to forget to moderate yourself in critical moments. It's also really really REALLY easy to feel offended even if a particular bite-y post was not assaulting your abilities. Like the above example, it can still feel like you're insulting someone's reading comprehension indirectly, which majority of the time they DID feel like that anyways after "moderating".

Unfortunately there's no fix for that. If the person you're replying to interprets it as such, they will no matter what you'll say. You can try to apologize, but no one here is flat out dumb to not know what your intent was.

All in all, the problem will just repeat itself more or less, which is why, once again, I stopped because I can't control someone's emotions and how they speak/type. It's not going to go away, not unless censorship happens and I'll not have that in TWG. Butchering someone's personality just because they're known to be super abrasive and blunt in general.

It's just unfortunate.

[Charu]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

Why am I rambling about this when I haven't even played a single game in over a year (or more now, I don't know)?

I miss playing I guess. If it's not inactives, it's... this issue. I think I went the opposite direction and learned how much of a dick I've been when I was playing this in my heyday. I miss it, but at the same time, I don't like what it brought out of me (or anyone else).

Of course there's other personal reasons, but shhhhhhhhh...

[Bolth mannn]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

Well I think Charu is absolutely right, we’re all here And talking about this in general because we love the game, and it is unfortunate, because I agree that censoring is not the answer. I’d be interested to see what funnygurl has to say about the issue as she mentioned another TWG community elsewhere that toxicity didn’t seem to be present in (in the postgame thread) and I’m curious whether that’s to do with any rules the forums over there might have or if it’s more to do with the different personalities that happen to play over there

[inDheart]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

what about every time you want to use an insult you instead sub in a funny word like Gordon Ramsey

"you fucking donkey!" "you friggin donut!"

u miserable potato
knife sounds

you can create pressure without it needing to be needly on a personal level (see: other communities not having this problem or trying to shut that shit down when it comes up. like the dark lord potter community all hates each other now because certain people have problems never washing their laundry, etc.). when i play in places where the average age on the site tends to be much younger, they also (ime) tend to have a much lower tolerance threshold for shit, where it's like if i make a reasonably analyzed wall where i conclude that someone's lying, i could get a certain group of friends mad online that i pointed imo reasoned pressure in any direction. there's even a certain kind of player that's not bothered by adam but adam also bothers himself out of some places anyway

so tl;dr i think the question is "is our tolerance level among the regs for personal attacks & the like too high"

i didn't read the game so __________

ig there have been some highly publicized past flare-ups of particular people that felt like they were "dealt with" in that those people got hate and selected themselves away, but question 2 is "is that the proper way to deal with that? should the twg mods do a thing?"

also "do people even bring shit up to the twg mods or do we feel like it's tattling?"

anyway, rolls away

[Charu]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

People call it getting a thicker skin, but I dunno about that anymore. That was my view as well in my heyday in this game.

There's having a tolerance for trash talk, and then there's knowing that trash talk is detrimental to everyone involved. Having views of both just make the situation more unbearable because you know it's going to happen since it's human nature to get frustrated at someone if you feel they're not doing something you consider to be "right".

[MixMasterLar]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

Was the last game that toxic? I didn't watch the game, lmao

No, but blaming me for being toxic (whatever that term means here) was more preferable to town then admiting their faults.

This whole thread sprang from those accusations and if this is going to just be a call out thread it'll be really cool if people dropped the pretense and just called me out like we're adults.

[Charu]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

No, but blaming me for being toxic (whatever that term means here) was more preferable to town then admiting their faults.

This whole thread sprang from those accusations and if this is going to just be a call out thread it'll be really cool if people dropped the pretense and just called me out like we're adults.

I actually got curious myself and decided to glance through the game.

...

Besides the other big problem (inactives), the emotional part I was describing was very much in the game that just ended.

The insults could be toned down, for sure. However, your bite-y posts were just that.

Bite-y.

Most of them were anyways. There were some insults here and there, but again, that goes back to the "heat of the moment" spiel. Biggest issue last game from what I glanced was honestly the inactivity more than the toxicity.

[MixMasterLar]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

I actually got curious myself and decided to glance through the game.

...

Besides the other big problem (inactives), the emotional part I was describing was very much in the game that just ended.

The insults could be toned down, for sure. However, your bite-y posts were just that.

Bite-y.

Most of them were anyways. There were some insults here and there, but again, that goes back to the "heat of the moment" spiel. Biggest issue last game from what I glanced was honestly the inactivity more than the toxicity.

Yeah it's probably more me losing my shit in deadchat and people not wanting ti be called out in post more then anything I feel.

Except who knows because no one's really defining quantifiable issues.

I get examples like what you and and Bolth post seem like they're clear but since a lot of it is interpretation anyway (I use to make up insults if you recall, and people legit would get hung up on being called something like bathwater harder then just fucker) it just seems like a pointless circle of debate.

Also maybe this is me taking it too personal but if I'm more toxic again what even does that word mean anyway then any other player it's probably 95% because I actually have a decent post volume and everyone else is slanking. Bug's flip from unsure newbie to arrogance the moment he got cleared would be considered toxic to some people but since he spent the game largely not playing it until the last phase nobody is going to really care.

[Charu]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

To be fair, I think you were a bit too strong on a new player... the arrogance might've just been a response to it to be honest, lol.

My view of toxicity in TWG (Or games like this) are what I described. Being an aggressive poster does not inherently make you a toxic player. However, just being aggressive has its issues as you know from me and others. Feelings get hurt and whatnot when you may not have intended to hurt feelings (keyword, MAY).

It's just inevitable with that playstyle, there's no changing it outside of forcing yourself to not be yourself.

You're certainly not like Adam boy like inDheart referenced, dohoho.