TWG Poll Questions

[the sun fan]

Just a few things, since its been a minute since the last TWG Poll.

Do we need to stick by roman numerals? Kinda feels silly at this point and the system looked cool for maybe the first hundred games, but now its just clunky imo.

Do moderators/staff members NEED to play on other accounts? The advantages that moderators/staff accounts have over normal accounts are as follows:

1) the ability to see invisible users on the "Currently Viewing" bar on the bottom of each page
2) the inability to be put on the ignore list of another FFR account
3) the ability to see IP addresses (this is more useful in certain situations than others).

They're all kind of minor and its a hassle for people to swap between accounts to be honest, and people definitely forget (Manti also got away with playing on his account because people kept forgetting to tell him to swap, definitely not me nope I didn't forget)

How do people feel about 2 games running at once? I would like to see how this worked out. Maybe run the top 2 games that get votes, staggering the signups a week after. I think we could do it, and people wouldn't have to wait so long between games that they don't want to play.

[devonin]

Re: TWG Poll Questions

I'll point out that the mod question is mostly about me.

And so i'd like to address the three issues surrounding playing on a staff account in my specific case.

The main issue is, I do NOT have the luxury of just "not logging into Devonin for the duration of the game" I HAVE TO BE logged in as Dev many times a day to handle site stuff, and so on where local mods don't need to do it as much.

So as a result

1) I can see the invisible people on the forum front page, and recognize them as TWG players anyway (where I can assume they're viewing the thread) Having to only come into the thread on an alt doesn't stop me from doing this if I wanted to do this.

2) I can't imagine why anybody should be putting another TWG player on ignore mid game, I'm honestly surprised there's not a rule -against- it for gameplay reasons. But sure, people could block seeing my posts on an alt, though I'm not even sure if the site prevents you from ignoring me on this account.

3) I can see IP addresses without even coming to the site, going into the admin CP. Even in an anonymous game, if I -wanted- to cheat I could do it without any presence in the thread or even on the forum.

In general, I can mouse over an icon in the thread that shows me an IP address, but I guarantee you that even in an anonymous game, I'm not going to -recognize- the IP address of anybody in the game. I'd have to go into the admin CP to get that info, which again, I can do without ever coming onto the forum.

So basically it comes down to "If you think I would cheat or use my moderator powers to my advantage, you need to actually just bar me from ever playing, because making me play on an alt won't actually prevent me from cheating if I want to. And if you don't think I will cheat, instead of making me swap accounts 50 times a day, just let me play on Devonin."

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG Poll Questions

IMO

The roman numerals are pretty much past the point where they're any use and are frankly detrimental to everyone's ability to remember games by their number.

Yes. The ability to see invisible players alone is ridiculous in that it completely messes up the game if someone lies about their activity (or lack thereof) and a mod happens to have noticed otherwise. Games have been broken by less.

I think having two games at once is _fine_ provided we keep the rule that a player can't register for two at the same time. Because we're a small community, it gives town an unfair deductive advantage being able to directly compare playstyle of the few of us in real time if the same players are playing in two concurrent games. Bigger communities don't have this problem cause other players fill in the slots so you don't really see simultaneous games with mostly the same players.

Also it shouldn't be the "top 2 in votes" but instead should be another timed vote to decide between the losers (because people.

Just my thoughts

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG Poll Questions

Also it shouldn't be the "top 2 in votes" but instead should be another timed vote to decide between the losers (because people.

good point

[Xiz]

Re: TWG Poll Questions

Roman Numerals: It's a "Tradition" but it's annoying tbh at this rate
Mods: As a host who had to ban a mod from abusing the power, its annoying but it's for the best.
Currently Viewing: No preference
Two games: Fine with it

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG Poll Questions

maybe you oughta anonymize the votes

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG Poll Questions

Devonin, it's not just about you, and it certainly isn't that I think anyone playing this game would intentionally cheat. Things just happen that can break games rather easily.

Take mellonxcollie, for instance. Let's say she's just chilling on TWG reading thru thread and composing her thoughts. Without meaning to, she sees Vendetta21 online as invisible popping in pretty regularly. Vendetta doesn't post yet because it's D0 and he's a wolf trying to stay under the radar for the first day.

The next day, 2 hours before EoD, V pops in and says something to the effect of how he's been swamped at work and has been unable to read thread. What generally happens in situations like that is that everyone is skeptical about believing in the excuse, but it's pointless to question the validity of IRL excuses so they move on and watch make some posts that seem like he's in a town detective mindset. People internally decide to let V go because he seems to be playing well now that he's here.

Now, the second mellonxcollie reads his excuse, she knows he's lying and is burning inside about that. Whether or not she says anything, her game and deductions are now directly influenced by her role as a moderator. She doesn't know for a fact whether he's town or wolf, but the lie makes her want to lynch him (and gives her the power to call him out in a lie). That's an unfair advantage.


As an admin, your situation is a little different. Given that you *have* to be online and available on your main account, I think it's alright to have exceptions to that rule in the games you play. In those games, I think people will take care to be a little more honest about their activity.

The moderators that are here regularly, though, don't really have that problem. Yes, it's a pain and a good bit more trouble to constantly remember to switch accounts, but it does maintain fairness and is a good safeguard to avoid accidentally messing up a game in most games.

[devonin]

Re: TWG Poll Questions

My point is just that every rule you prevent me from breaking by making me play on an alt, I can break anyway.

Local mods are different, they don't have access to the Admin Control Panel, and being local mods, they probably don't need to log into their main account at ALL most days while they're playing, maybe once or twice at the start and end of their session. I need to be on Devonin like...a whole bunch and if I'm flipping back and forth between the accounts, I have access to -all- the information you're trying to keep from me.

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG Poll Questions

My point is just that every rule you prevent me from breaking by making me play on an alt, I can break anyway.

Local mods are different, they don't have access to the Admin Control Panel, and being local mods, they probably don't need to log into their main account at ALL most days while they're playing, maybe once or twice at the start and end of their session. I need to be on Devonin like...a whole bunch and if I'm flipping back and forth between the accounts, I have access to -all- the information you're trying to keep from me.

That's my point as well. Even for the rules we do have, there's no way to stop local mods from "cheating" if they wanted to cheat. The reason we have em switch accounts to prevent *accidental* information coming out like that.

Which is also why I said I'd be OK with making an exception for games you play because (1) it's unavoidable and (2) everyone would know what they're getting into _for that game_ so they'd likely be a bit more honest about activity. That's very different than it being every single game of local mods having that advantage.

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG Poll Questions

maybe you oughta anonymize the votes

why?

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG Poll Questions

the Poll might be borked
I will repost it tomorrow

[devonin]

Re: TWG Poll Questions

That's my point as well. Even for the rules we do have, there's no way to stop local mods from "cheating" if they wanted to cheat. The reason we have em switch accounts to prevent *accidental* information coming out like that.

Which is also why I said I'd be OK with making an exception for games you play because (1) it's unavoidable and (2) everyone would know what they're getting into _for that game_ so they'd likely be a bit more honest about activity. That's very different than it being every single game of local mods having that advantage.

i think it's a mistake to think I'm observant and/or clever enough to even notice activity let alone draw good conclusions from it. But in fact, there -are- easier ways for me to cheat that local mods don't have access to.

[devonin]

Re: TWG Poll Questions

the Poll might be borked
I will repost it tomorrow

This is my fault. When DBP said the poll should be anonymous, I figured "Better safe than sorry to get to it sooner if it -should- be anonymous, and then I can just un-anonymous it if it turns out we want it the other way" except vbullitin in its infinite wisdom, saw me uncheck the "display voters" button and decided "You know what we should do? just completely discard all the voter info we were storing and also not give you the option to start storing it again!"

So um...sorry.

[inDheart]

Re: TWG Poll Questions

i don't think i have an opinion that adds much to this but

there is no good technical solution to the staff thing; the largest part of any solution here is, and already has been, trust

i don't think the player base is here for multiple games at once, plus you'd need to replace rule 9 with ongoing games rules since idt those exist

e: i also like having ignore available since it's a fairly safe use once you have a read on a person, but i don't think i've tried or wanted to ignore a staff member in a game, so it's kinda whatever

[Shadow_God_10]

Re: TWG Poll Questions

As a newer player and a very old member of the site I kinda value tradition

I say keep the roman numerals and keep it one game at a time UNLESS we have one game and one junior game. That would be something I could get behind

EDIT: As for Admin and staff needing alt accounts, I personally don't really care either way but a fair game is a fair game and I think that's where this part of FFR is going and what the players want as well