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"Words of Wisdom"Originally posted by someone's history teacher -
Re: Stepmania Nostalgia Pack Released!
I had a feeling it was something like this.
Well I have a sec now so I'll play heavy-
Nostalgia: 4/5 You know what I have to say about the mines at this point, but everything else was old-school as it comes. I still take exception to the holiday notes at the end too but oh well
Fun: 4/5
Good file. Like the stream patterns, like the jump patterns too. Not exactly pitch relevant but pattern relevant, which was something people always kinda tried to do. Obviously I'm going to complain about the mines in terms of nostalgia factor, though I have to say I didn't mind them as much in this chart as others.
TBH the song made me want to die inside, even the best chart can't keep hearing the same chorus 16 times over interesting.
I go back to late 2005, which is about right as far as keyboard files go, but I really never did pad charts or indexing so that's why my comments to those ends are a little less precise.
And, anytime
It's fun to review files, at least when I'm in the mood for it.
Anyone who thinks that chart is correct has no brain, anyone who thinks that chart is not fun has no heart.
/Putin
As far as I'm concerned, my "era" of nostalgia is 2006-ish so I viewed the files through that lens. People are going to obviously have different views about this, not all of which are necessarily wrong.
Specific things I personally view as "new" trends are:
1. Definitely mines. Back when I started, no keyboard file had mines. Certainly not one of the hundreds I downloaded at the time off Bemanistyle or FFR. I don't even think Stepmania could handle mines at all until early 2005; ITG came out in August 2004. I couldn't find the changelog to see when mines were added to Stepmania but yeah. Definitely mines.
2. Hands/Quads. Hands were another thing, these also debuted with ITG in 2004 and before then it was pretty much 100% taboo to have 3 arrows pressed at once. There were (and still are) concerns about people's keyboards not being able to register 3 simultaneous presses. If you think about it, pretty much every well known non-BS file from 2006 time had no hands. To give you a sense of the prevailing attitudes toward hands, the first FFR file with hands wasn't added until early 2008 (thereabouts, too lazy to check exactly). BUT- there was a subsection of keyboard-only files that were pretty BS and spammed hands. This includes our old friend NVLM_ZK (Road of Death anyone?), as well as select other dumps that are currently escaping my mind. But I know I had a few files with hands in 2005, pretty much without exception they were absurdly hard dumps. Therefore, I generally associate hands in files of that era with dumpiness (Enemy Storm is a PERFECT example, it seriously looks like it came right out of NVLM_ZK's harddrive lol)
3. Holiday notes. People sucked at syncing back then, well, certainly compared to now. I think a good example is Quasar. The second section of stream in that song has NOTHING to do with the music- Arch probably listened to it for like 2 minutes and was like **** it, just putting stream. And a lot of people did that with rhythms that were too hard to figure out. This is why people were really impressed with files such as Toph's The a la Menthe. That was pretty much the first true holiday note file I can remember (there were others such as DTM's Passage D, but they were mostly IDM songs). The first file I had with real polyrhythms was probably Beyond the Earth (Toph again; he was way ahead of his time). Another example I can think of is Linus's My Spirit Will Go On guitar solo. The whole song is 200bpm, but the guitar solo is actually like 176.3 bpm or some crap like that. Of course Linus just left the solo at 200 and kinda put some holiday notes then just gave up and did whatever he wanted. People also were less inclined to step random sounds in the song "just for variety" or whatever. I could go on and on about this but that should give you an idea of what I associate with this time period.
4. Minifreezes. These days used to highlight sounds. Less of a issue to me, because I remember some files back then used this as well (I think Reach's Cynthia file, in the stream? or something like that?). But it is generally a newer thing, using freezes in this way. Generally any freeze shorter than say, an 8th note, where it's basically impossible to fail the freeze, is too short in my view. But this is definitely a more subjective thing.
So yeah. Basically, people are going to to have different memories based on what they consider nostalgic.
You can take 2 approaches: either be really strict about it ("Nostalgia files = 2005 or 2006 style only. No mines in keyboard charts, no hands unless it's kinda dumpy already") or you could just do what you did here and let people define it how they want. I really saw only one file I'd say absolutely has no business being in this pack as far as nostalgia goes, along with maybe 2 more I'm kinda skeptical about. But other than that I'd still say it was a success in that regard.
The only one I'd really be more harsh about is mines. I'd say at the very least if you're going to use them, use them in an ITG-ish way (Quad mines for silence, mines to enforce letting go of a hold note when a sound ends sharply, also mine spam to artificially make a file harder, which I personally hate but it was definitely a thing back then) instead of like, one ****ing tacky mine at the end of a file just because you can.Last edited by hi19hi19; 08-14-2011, 01:34 PM.
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Re: Stepmania Nostalgia Pack Released!
Wow... I NEVER thought that people actually like Enemy Storm. You can't imagine how happy I am right now, haha. But yeah, I actually wanted to step something in a "NVLM_ZK way", so I searched for some songs by Croove and that's how it all started.Comment
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Re: Stepmania Nostalgia Pack Released!
You did a great job HawkE :3
I told you I do not kid when I say that you make awesome files!
EDIT: Wow, thank you so much hi19 for your input on that. I think if I were to make something like this again, I will be more strict with mines and hand usage for sure. I really REALLY appreciate your input you have no idea! ^^
Also, I hope you will be able to submit to the second one as well roflLast edited by i love you; 08-14-2011, 01:38 PM.===============================
The idea that RDCP 3 may come out in the future is a fun thought to have~
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Re: Stepmania Nostalgia Pack Released!
Well I'd like to be careful. More strict as in, when someone submits a file be like "well this file has hands which is off considering it's rather easy. I can't think of any old files that are like this. Are you sure you want to do this?"
As long as they can point out a few old files like the one they're submitting, who are we to argue?
If it fits *someone's* definition of nostalgic it's worth including, as long as they're ready for people like me to come along and be jerk saying it's not :P
And yeah I sort of forgot to submit a file. You should PM me or something when the next one starts! I'm too airheaded
As far as I can recall, NVLM only stepped music from other rhythm games. DJMax, EZ2DJ, O2jam, Beatmania...
I've always wondered whether this was because the songs were good (right length, lots of energy and sounds to step), or simply because he could cheat and use someone else's BPM changes?
Hardest in all edit step! Fingers Wasted!!!!Last edited by hi19hi19; 08-14-2011, 02:12 PM.
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Re: Stepmania Nostalgia Pack Released!
I will definitely put in more thought into what you said when the time comes for a second pack hehe===============================
The idea that RDCP 3 may come out in the future is a fun thought to have~
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Re: Stepmania Nostalgia Pack Released!
I hope another pack like this would attract more steppers. The rules in stepping these files are more relaxed than the other packs."Words of Wisdom"Originally posted by someone's history teacherComment
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Re: Stepmania Nostalgia Pack Released!
Wow hi19 thank you so much for sharing guidelines on how old files can be done! This will be helpful especially seeing how my Love is Dreaminess violates a few of those guidelines
I can't wait to make more nostalgia mania files hahaComment
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Re: Stepmania Nostalgia Pack Released!
Older files had mines too, at one point. Usually for difficulty rather than decoration though I figure.
Older files also had hands ._. I'm not quite sure I understand your review hi19
This pack had some pretty fun files though!Comment
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Re: Stepmania Nostalgia Pack Released!
Yeah, of course. That's why I'm trying to be careful when I say, it's not a RULE that it can't have hands, just that it was much less common than today. People were less accepting of hands and they were used in a different way than today, usually for especially loud or unusual sounds instead of the "well if 3 layers line up it's a hand" thing you get nowadays. So it's something to keep in mind. I don't want to make it sound like everything I say is fact.
But yeah about mines, the dinky little 1 mine for decoration at the end thing is definitely a no-go. Sorry, but I can't think of ANY file prior to say, 2008, that used a mine this way. If you're going to use mines, use them like you mean it.
In my review I noted all the places hands and mines felt right to me or wrong to me, but that's just my opinion. Subjectivemanias
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Re: Stepmania Nostalgia Pack Released!
Well, it's kind of a 'different' song, to be honest. The file's oriented toward a pad-style approach, and I think I may have been the only correct mine-user based on what you typed.
Eh, kinda put the minifreezes in there for a 'Cynthia' effect. Glad you enjoyed the JS within long freezes, though.
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