The SMGroove Community Revival Pack is released! (page 1 for link)

[dondon151]

Re: The SMGroove Community Revival Pack is released! (page 1 for link)

or, toning down the criticism makes new simfile artists complacent

nothing is stopping a simfile artist from asking tsuka why a file sucks, but they're too busy trying to salvage their pride and continuing the inflammatory remarks

EDIT: ok, every file in this pack was judged and accepted, that must mean every file is damn near perfect and there's really no need for criticism at all

i realize that this is an exaggeration but i seriously questioned most of the judges' decisions

[L_eMo_N]

Re: The SMGroove Community Revival Pack is released! (page 1 for link)

lol kneegrow... dont even okay??? ;DDD
seriously, read through it okay??? the point im trying to get across... dont get carried away now alrite?? is to be a bit more informative with the critique, and less harsh seriously... as pointed out, it does nothing to the author but destroy their esteem to make more...

seriously...

[ClAsSiC_RoCkEr]

Re: The SMGroove Community Revival Pack is released! (page 1 for link)

or, toning down the criticism makes new simfile artists complacent

nothing is stopping a simfile artist from asking tsuka why a file sucks, but they're too busy trying to salvage their pride and continuing the inflammatory remarks

ok, every file in this pack was judged and accepted, that must mean every file is damn near perfect and there's really no need for criticism at all

So what you're is that it's not okay to be proud of your own work? That taking the insults directed toward something you worked hard for is all part of the process of getting better?

Remember that having a file accepted into a semi-notorious pack is having the thrill of knowing that you have the potential of being a great simfile artist. And nobody's perfect. I know that and I knew that I'd have a ton of technical errors with my simfiles but didn't expect to have garbage opinions tagged along with it. Most of whom are in these packs are but amateurs and we took pride in our works, so having it spit at isn't at all "constructive criticism". I just don't have that sort of mentality where I can get stepped over and I have to kiss ass and take the belting for someone's polite criticism. And I'm pretty damn sure that nobody else that contributed to this pack wants that either.

Surprise EDIT by dondon: did you want more well-known judges like yourself or DS? What would happen when the point of the pack was to give amateur simfile artists a chance to realize their own potential to become good at creating them?

[Kn33groW]

Re: The SMGroove Community Revival Pack is released! (page 1 for link)

My point is this, and Im done.



WEVE ALL BEEN THROUGH THIS. Me, Tsuka, Patashu, Necros, Ossa, Mac, Zanthro, Ducky, Yessss, t0ra, Don, Iamme, all of the experienced artists you see today. I even remember when everyone HATEEED GLoVE's files. We all started like this, its just the way of the community.

You start making files, people say "wow that was freakin horrrrible as fuc", "quit please you fail". etc. BUT ITS THOSE WORDS that pushed us to keep trying until we were succesful.

I remember back in the day I used to always send Yessss my files and hed always tell me how horrible they were. I played a couple of succesful files, got a feel for what made sense, and eventually I got good. WE WERE ALL AT THIS POINT at some point in time, and thats why most of us arent sympathetic to such comments. Yes it may seem harsh, but in the longrun youll appreciate the harshness. I remember when I tried to get my files in SMG1, Tsuka told me I was the worst simfile artist hed ever seen, and regardless of countless tries to help me, Ossa would NOT accept anything I made. We even got into this big dumbass argument over it (such as what you guys are trying to start).

Regardless, I kept going, collabed with yesssss (helped ALOT), got like 5 files into vgmp2 (even though only 1 of them was serious), worked more, got respected on odi and smg (pre-webgod), became an smg2 judge because of my file "Fear", and now Im here.


p.s. For those new to this, Im not trying to down talk you or say "this is the way it is so just accept it". I just am trying to explain to you that WEVE ALL been down this road, and its just something a simfile artist goes through when your starting out. Heck, you go through it once you become "advanced" also.

[L_eMo_N]

Re: The SMGroove Community Revival Pack is released! (page 1 for link)

yeah i know what your talking about kn33

im done... that's the only point im trying to get across =)))

[ducky285]

Re: The SMGroove Community Revival Pack is released! (page 1 for link)

I wrote a review for this, too. I might as well post it here. It's heavily modified from the one I posted on ODI and SMG.

Keep in mind that I like to be encouraging so I'm avoiding harsh language for the most part.

1st Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto - Bland. Not much here stands out. Song was a pretty poor choice to step.

321 Stars - I don't know if I agree with the sounds that were followed. Also, it seems like you like to use 32nd rolls a lot. Seems like you tried a little too hard to make this difficult.

Air Platform - Actually really fun despite being repetitive and kinda generic. Not much else here, though, I would suggest picking longer, more dynamic songs to step.

Ancient Temple - This has a lot of consistency and accuracy issues. There are a few jacks that didn't seem to make much sense. Some parts are cool, I guess, but it is also a tad bland in spots where some attention to pitch might've helped. The rest either jumped around between sounds or it was sloppily done. What makes it worse is that it could've actually been a pretty good file had you spent some time on it.

Befriend A Child Killer - Both charts reminded me of some of the old school IDM charts people made back in the old days. Not to say it was bad, but it wasn't my cup of tea. The main issue I had was alot of the BPM changes were unecessary. Some were cool, but some felt like overkill. The middle was boring as hell.

Border of Life - SO much potential was wasted. The sim was way understepped outside of the jumpstreams. Needs to follow more sounds and be more consistent. Not saying it has to be an overlayered dump, but there was so much more that could've been done with this song. More importantly, the song could've done with a cut.

Brave Warrior - Some parts of this were cool, but the freezes and some of the patterns were annoying and there were two spots that seemed kinda stupid compared to the rest of the sim. Not a bad sim, though, pretty decent file for scoring. I think you could tweak this and make it awesome.

Car Sax - Steps kinda blahed up the cool rhythms in the song by oversimplifying them or turning them into stream. Also had the potential for some swing steps. The song is actually ok for stepping, but you made it rather bland.

Chimera - Somewhat fun and fits the song pretty well. While not particularly noteworthy, it's decent. Nothing I'd really play again, though.

Contain - Your basic IDM file with rather cleverly placed mines but with 64ths and other weird **** that ruins the flow of the file. I only played Oni, but I'm guessing Heavy doesn't have the annoying stuff in it.

Deep Magenta - Kil makes really good files. Nothing much else to say here.

Desert Rose - Very interesting and brag-board worthy file. It has an old school DukAmok feel to it. A few annoyances but overall it was ok.

Determination - Not all that bad, but freezes make parts of this awkward. Also, during the solo, jumps going to single notes irked me a bit as well as some inconsistencies. Brag-board worthy file. Also, and this is just my personal preference, doubling the BPM might've been a good idea. It annoys me the same way Brandish Headless and Duk's Big Blue annoy me.

End of Your World - I don't know exactly how I feel about this, but it feels like you picked the worst sounds to step or the song just wasn't steppable. Pick better songs to step.

Extravaganza - Terrible song, but it was crazy fun on index. Boring on spread, though. BPM changes were pointless.

Fighting for Control - Minifreeze abuse. Usually if you have to use that many small freezes, it's best to drop them completely. Other than that and the long jumpstreams, the file was actually pretty well-done.

Go Beyond - Kinda dump. Before the part that played like Due Tomorrow, it was ok, though I spotted some misplaced notes. The ending was pretty dumb, but I guess it made sense (up to a point). Probably would've done better with an easier, more fun chart. Brag-board worthy, but I doubt a lot of people will want to play it for score purposes because it's not fun at all.

Gun Rock - I liked this, but this song has so much more potential and you could've done more with it. Also a little pitch relevance could've helped a bit since some parts of the song would've fit well with it. Still good the way it is, though. A little tweaking could make this pretty awesome.

Healing Vision RMX (edit) - Good index file except for the 24ths at the end. Seems to be caught in index-spread limbo. Oni was actually pretty decent on index also, but I probably won't' play it again.

Kamaitachi - Hey, Skauert's back! Pretty fun and cool in an old school way, which is fine if the sim is enjoyable. Song is ****in' TERRIBLE, though.

Konamized - Really good if you take all the mini-freezes off the jumps in those 16th jumps runs. They are unecessary and annoying. This is fun and rather cool, but it is rather easy and I think most people will AAA/SDP it on a sightread, so replay value is pretty low. Still pretty good.

La goofy French song - What the ****, Ossa?! XD Not a bad file, actually pretty good and doesn't abuse freezes like some of Ossa's other stuff. Nice color vomit, too. :P

Lolharp5000 - Song blows, steps are bland. Bad song for stepping.

Mellann - Kinda boring, actually. It's not generic Flashbulb, but it is pretty repetitive and the cool parts were too few and far between to keep it interesting. I would try branching out and stepping non-IDM songs and see how they come out. YOu seem to be pigeonholing yourself.

Mercury Lamp - Too many jacks on jumps that didn't make sense since there really should be something in the music that justifies the use of jacks in those cases. Most of file was pretty boring, anyway.

Morph Moth - Eh...it's ok, but it's a little too repetitive for my taste. Looping Megaman music was never my thing, though.

Motteke - I REALLY DIDN'T WANT TO PLAY THIS. But I did. Song is annoying as ****, but the steps are similar to Kilga's old files except not as fun.

Retard Drums - An xmod sim, eh? Reminds me of Zagh's Jai Envie though not as focused. Not bad, but suffers from being damn near impossible to score well on without some dedication. Also, some parts were annoying and there were errors.

Roki - A little trill-happy for my taste, but it isn't bad. Nothing really impressive here, though. A little more could've been done with the song and the jacks on the left hand were annoying.

Sakura - Way too overdone and repetitive on top of that. Also, the song is REALLY ****ING ANNOYING.

Schlagwerk - Sorry if this is a bit harsh, but I didn't like this at all. There were a ton of errors and it took every measure to be generic and uninteresting. It isn't even fun, it's boring. Also, the song is overused. Find some more original songs to step.

Square Pickin' - Not the best thing you've ever made, but it was neat. Rather fun, but I probably would've enjoyed it more had I played it on a speed mod higher than 4x. Probably could've played it with a CMod, too. :P

The Crow's Eye - This needed to be cut and the freezes needed to be toned down. It was alright, but it was too long and got old pretty fast. Patterns need work, too.

The Last Battle - Dumpstream with freezes. Not fun at all. Concentrate more on making files that are enjoyable.

The Strong Jaeger (Ryu* remix) - I had a few issues with this. First off, it was too streamy and freeform. There were rhythms and melodies that could've been stepped in more interesting ways than just a straight jumpstream. Secondly, too many damn freezes. They don't need to be there and they just make the whole thing look sloppy. More focus is needed here.

This Dying Soul - Not your best, but it's pretty decent and fits the song perfectly in terms of difficulty. It's a speed and stamina test to be sure. I hate the song, though, but that's just me. Step some Mahavishnu Orchestra for me and I'll love you forever. :P

Under The Sky - Good file for beginners who haven't gotten used to hands but it's meh otherwise. WAY too many freezes, though. Also, some of the steps in the beginning felt off, but it could just be me.

Vanessa - Some consistency errors here and there, but this isn't horrible. It feels kinda like Eggman's Gigadelic only not as dumb. The quad jacks were overkill. also, I got the feeling that the mp3 was off the GST, but I haven't cared enough to look.

X-Treme - HORRID song, but the steps have their moments. Pretty fun, but the long ass 16th stream that went to nothing and some inconsistency ruined it. Again, pick better songs to step.

[bang] - Lots of jacks that didn't seem to make sense and the steps were fairly poor compared to Hayden's (and his was pretty meh anyway). There were a few missed sounds and the BPM changes didn't do much for the file.

Overall: Pack succeeds to give people who don't necessarily like overly technical stuff something decent to play, but it does little else. It's not a terrible pack, it's passable and it's a good start, but there's a lot of room for improvement in terms of focus and creativity.

[dondon151]

Re: The SMGroove Community Revival Pack is released! (page 1 for link)

WEVE ALL BEEN THROUGH THIS. Me, Tsuka, Patashu, Necros, Ossa, Mac, Zanthro, Ducky, Yessss, t0ra, Don, Iamme, all of the experienced artists you see today. I even remember when everyone HATEEED GLoVE's files. We all started like this, its just the way of the community.

You start making files, people say "wow that was freakin horrrrible as fuc", "quit please you fail". etc. BUT ITS THOSE WORDS that pushed us to keep trying until we were succesful.

actually i've never made a file bad enough where people told me to kill myself but kn33grow's right here

So what you're is that it's not okay to be proud of your own work? That taking the insults directed toward something you worked hard for is all part of the process of getting better?

uh yeah otherwise you've convinced yourself that you're da greatest. of course you can take pride in your own work, but if you answer to insults with more insults and adamantly refuse to take criticism at all levels then you're not getting anything out of it, right?

I know that and I knew that I'd have a ton of technical errors with my simfiles but didn't expect to have garbage opinions tagged along with it.

on 4 of your files (which may or may not be all of them) tsuka went more than just "it plain sucks;" i don't see why you're complaining

I just don't have that sort of mentality where I can get stepped over and I have to kiss ass and take the belting for someone's polite criticism. And I'm pretty damn sure that nobody else that contributed to this pack wants that either.

you don't have to kiss ass. just don't look like an idiot and take it like a man.

Surprise EDIT by dondon: did you want more well-known judges like yourself or DS? What would happen when the point of the pack was to give amateur simfile artists a chance to realize their own potential to become good at creating them?

surprise, not all of us are elitist bastards. ap gives advice on how to improve files that don't suck ass, and i'm sure most of us would as well if we had to host a pack

how am i well-known anyway i have never released a file outside of ODI

ducky's got it down

[Kn33groW]

Re: The SMGroove Community Revival Pack is released! (page 1 for link)

Duck,


Always the encouraging 1.

=P

[ducky285]

Re: The SMGroove Community Revival Pack is released! (page 1 for link)

Lemme say this...

This pack, above all, allows amateur sim authors who have some potential to get their stuff out there so they can get feedback and advice from more experienced authors. I think the pack's creators would agree that one of the goals of the pack. for the people whining about the harsh criticism, consider how hard it is to get anyone to even comment on simfiles, especially if you're an unknown.

I for one can attest to the fact that it's hard to get criticism from others when no one knows who you are, making it more difficult to improve. I used to go through it all the time until I started talking to Glove. He helped me figure stuff out and I think my sims have gotten way better as a result of his advice. It's also made me want to be more encouraging to others who have potential.

That being said, I would love to see Thanh, Kommisar, ShadowGod, and Torrent take some of our advice since I think they can make some damn good files if given the opportunity.

[ClAsSiC_RoCkEr]

Re: The SMGroove Community Revival Pack is released! (page 1 for link)

uh yeah otherwise you've convinced yourself that you're da greatest. of course you can take pride in your own work, but if you answer to insults with more insults and adamantly refuse to take criticism at all levels then you're not getting anything out of it, right?

No, you're clearly not getting what I'm at all. I already said that nobody's perfect and knew from the start that there were going to be errors and things that needed to be fixed. I also didn't say that you shouldn't give them constructive criticism, but I think there just be a gap right there between what you think it is and what every other real person thinks it is.

on 4 of your files (which may or may not be all of them) tsuka went more than just "it plain sucks;" i don't see why you're complaining

I wasn't complaining about just my own file, but everybody else's.

you don't have to kiss ass. just don't look like an idiot and take it like a man.

Backing up what most simfile artists contributed to this pack makes me look like an idiot over someone who thinks that saying a file is **** doesn't?

surprise, not all of us are elitist bastards. ap gives advice on how to improve files that don't suck ass, and i'm sure most of us would as well if we had to host a pack

how am i well-known anyway i have never released a file outside of ODI

I meant playing your files and every other popular simfile author's of the 'evolved' SM community would probably mean that had you hosted this pack, seeing on what you judge a "good simfile", would probably mean a simfile rejection orgy, completely missing the whole point of the pack.

[dondon151]

Re: The SMGroove Community Revival Pack is released! (page 1 for link)

No, you're clearly not getting what I'm at all. I already said that nobody's perfect and knew from the start that there were going to be errors and things that needed to be fixed. I also didn't say that you shouldn't give them constructive criticism, but I think there just be a gap right there between what you think it is and what every other real person thinks it is.

i'm a fake person.

i've already said what i had to say on this; clearly neither of us is getting each other.

I wasn't complaining about just my own file, but everybody else's.

ok.

on a good majority of the files (which may or may not be all of them,) tsuka went more than just "it plain sucks"

Backing up what most simfile artists contributed to this pack makes me look like an idiot over someone who thinks that saying a file is **** doesn't?

i was actually referring to taking insults. sorry if i misunderstood.

I meant playing your files and every other popular simfile author's of the 'evolved' SM community would probably mean that had you hosted this pack, seeing on what you judge a "good simfile", would probably mean a simfile rejection orgy, completely missing the whole point of the pack.

"ap gives advice on how to improve files that don't suck ass, and i'm sure most of us would as well if we had to host a pack"

which imo would be more effective than critiqueing a released pack because then we're actually obligated to give good criticism

[ClAsSiC_RoCkEr]

Re: The SMGroove Community Revival Pack is released! (page 1 for link)

lol...

Did you not get what I meant when I said that taking insults isn't "constructive criticism"? Just please and try to keep up.

As for giving criticism for a pack you didn't take part of: So really... why are you here, then? Are you here to insult their files? I think you need to work on getting a feel on what constructive criticism really is. Otherwise, say nothing and gtfo.

[Yesssss]

Re: The SMGroove Community Revival Pack is released! (page 1 for link)

you're all drama ******s

If you want constructive criticism, or want to get better at making simfiles, talk to someone who makes simfiles you like, and get advice from them. You're extremely more likely to get something out of it. Don't expect people to be nice because you took effort to make something that isn't worth everyone's time.

[L_eMo_N]

Re: The SMGroove Community Revival Pack is released! (page 1 for link)

lol... that's not drama n.n

its just an argument... and trying to get points across... i think it's pretty obvious, telling the 2 sides apart... i think it should be left at that... i still stick to my side of the argument...

this argument is over, it just keeps growing more complex...

dont get this idea stuck in your head though... i still believe that it shouldn't be harsh, to bash on amateur simfiles, if you think its a waste of time, dont try it seriously, this is a pack for amateurs to show what they can do, their work in progress...

grow up if you insult their simfiles... grow up...

[dondon151]

Re: The SMGroove Community Revival Pack is released! (page 1 for link)

Did you not get what I meant when I said that taking insults isn't "constructive criticism"? Just please and try to keep up.

As for giving criticism for a pack you didn't take part of: So really... why are you here, then? Are you here to insult their files? I think you need to work on getting a feel on what constructive criticism really is. Otherwise, say nothing and gtfo.

i'm partially responsible for this, but the issue here was never about insults in the first place. some people complained about tsuka being too harsh with his criticism, and then you and mrrubix generalized most of them as flat out insults with no constructive basis whatsoever.

gain can still be derived from insults, though, even if they're not intended to be constructive.

why am i here? i personally believe that this idea of harsh criticism being unnecessary is bull****, and i came here to defend tsuka because you guys are criticizing him for doing something that he isn't obligated to do in the first place.