Expanding the difficulty spectrum

[Pseudo Enigma]

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum

just make vROFL a 100 to make it seem more bizarre. Nothing is weirder than the only triple digit song.

Making it beyond double digits would imply it has gone farther than any song in terms of difficulty, and indeed it does. It's un AAA'able, and un FC'able for most.

Idk if putting a song into the triple digits would fuck with anything but w/e.

[Poison-]

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum

    99:
    Reluctantly Accepting Temporary Overexhaustion
     
    98:
    Death Piano
     
    96:
    Metro
    Revolutionary Etude
     
    95:
    do i smile?
    Rave7
     
    94:
    Crowdpleaser
    Winter Wind Etude
    Jamais Vu
     
    93:
    Husigi Usagi Milk Tei
    Extratone Pirates
     
    92:
    A Quick Death
    System Doctor
    White Walls, Part 2
     
    91:
    Almost There
    Magical 8bit Tour
    Vortex
     
    90:
    Counter Clockwise Chant Pattern
    Eclipse (Solar)
    J'ai Envie de Plaisir X2
    Schmollbluk
    Slashmaid (Instrumental)
     
    89:
    grind2
    Grist
    La Campanella
    Scrap Syndrome
     
    88:
    DeVouR
    FREEDOM DiVE
    Here We Go
    Rain [YMCK]
    Xanthystrauma
     
    87:
    Chik Habit
    Kirlian Shores
    Music (For Kirby)
    Rage Template
    Red Wings Over Baron
    St. Scarhand
    Tell v3 (Extended Mix)
     
    86:
    Canary Part V
    My Half
    One Minute Waltz
    Pandora
    Piano Etude (Demon Fire) [Oni]
    Phi-dentity Crisis
    Zombie Sunset
     
    85:
    Breakbeat Acid
    Hero Reconsidering
    Mathsma Attack
    Milky Blue
    Molto Vivace
    RAN
    Rock Rock Rock (t+pazolite remix)
    Storm Raid Battle
     
    84:
    ==Planet KARMA==
    12 Bar Bloops
    A Kidney Stone
    Betrayal
    Hardkore Atomic
    Little God Ch@nnel
    Mourning the Lost
    Necropotence
    Saddest RMX
     
    83:
    Grand Galop Chromatique
    I Hate The 80s
    Lawn Wake II
    Sleepmix Strikes Back
    STRAWBERRY SWEETZ
    Tenimuhou
    White Walls, Part 1
     
    82:
    Blue Rose
    Coactive [Over My Shoulder Mix]
    Ehhen Doyadosu? Tengujiman
    Electro Rush X8 v2
    Integraation
    World's End Yama Xanadu
     
    81:
    11ELEVEN
    Across Rooftops
    Einstein-Rosen Bridge
    Halcyon [xi]
    Mephisto Waltz
    mutant corecore
    Tageri
    Unicron Barbeque
     
    80:
    Gunkienen Tarusuigin
    Holy Orders
    Ketsarku Mozgalom
    Love and Justice
    Jamais Deux
    Nomina Nuda Tenemus
    The Bird's Concrete Nosedive
    Shotgun Surgery
     
    79:
    honki sentai majirenjaa -MAJI eurobeat version-
    Magical Higan Tour 2009
    NaiNai 69
    Pants
    Reality
    The Bird's Poisoned Bathwater
     
    78:
    BEER
    Level Skip
    (everything else)
     
    unrated:
     
    TWWW, p4u v1, vrofl

A lot of this stuff looks really good, honestly. Although if it were up to me, I would be moving Eclipse down, and not up.

I'm curious to know any other changes you've made to this list, and I'd be happy to add another opinion into the mix (although I CLEARLY can't play the higher difficulty files like you guys can)

Oh good point. IMO putting RATO as a ranked file was the main mistake in the first place, but I doubt it'd be converted into a token at this point, even if the token is easily attainable. I wonder how many people would dispute that...

I honestly wouldn't have a problem with moving it to a token. As long as it isn't hard to get (only since it's been public for so long already). I wouldn't argue with DP getting changed to a token either. They really screw up the difficulty scale of the public files in my opinion.

[stavie33]

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum

I agree with nearly everything said in this thread. The upper areas of modern FGO's are way too squished together, and that gap in the 90's needs to be filled. I've always been for making vrofl a ???, because even with RATO at 96, vrofl and 99 is not a big enough jump. Like the joke file it is, vrofl should have no rating, and RATO should be 99, mainly because there should NEVER be a file harder than RATO let into this game. It is a dump file, and I hope to never see another file dumpier, or harder than it. Therefore it should be the limit, 99, and everything else filled out inbetween. I like OWA's scale, and I like your ideas as well bb, but we'd have to look at where to stretch out certain songs, I personally don't find Rain that much harder than other 86's.

[ssbmchamp]

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum

I'm a little confused with this whole "no room for movement" discussion. the scale goes from 1-99. 99 means hardest song in the game, A.K.A. VROFL. Perfect that fits. Then make RATO a 98 because it's the second most difficult file in the game (and the only one with a difficulty range in that level) Since I don't foresee any other future files being as difficult as VROFL, this to me means every new file would be 1-98. If a new file as difficult as RATO comes out you would make it a 98 also. I just feel as though you guys are just complicating things way more than they need to be. The problem here seems to be that you guys are worried about VROFL being in it's own category (which I understand that since nothing else compares BUT, it's still the hardest in the game which is why it needs to stay at 99) You already have a great rating system in place so just use that and adjust accordingly. If you're still worried about it that much why not make the rating system go from 1-105....at least that way you could show the huge gap between VROFL and RATO, and it would give you more room for movement.

[bballa48]

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum

I'm a little confused with this whole "no room for movement" discussion. the scale goes from 1-99. 99 means hardest song in the game, A.K.A. VROFL. Perfect that fits. Then make RATO a 98 because it's the second most difficult file in the game (and the only one with a difficulty range in that level) Since I don't foresee any other future files being as difficult as VROFL, this to me means every new file would be 1-98. If a new file as difficult as RATO comes out you would make it a 98 also. I just feel as though you guys are just complicating things way more than they need to be. The problem here seems to be that you guys are worried about VROFL being in it's own category (which I understand that since nothing else compares BUT, it's still the hardest in the game which is why it needs to stay at 99) You already have a great rating system in place so just use that and adjust accordingly. If you're still worried about it that much why not make the rating system go from 1-105....at least that way you could show the huge gap between VROFL and RATO, and it would give you more room for movement.

RATO being 98 and VROFL being 99 makes no sense. The score gaps between the two songs are MASSIVE.

Also, Rob I REALLY like your list. Overall, you pretty much nailed everything in a far more objective manner than I did.

One thing I saw though....

Anyone else think 11ELEVEN should slide up into the 82s? At the very least it should before Coactive, IMO.

[Zapmeister]

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum

If we're going to introduce "??" or "???" ratings are we just going to use them for intractably hard songs, or can they also be used for things like omgwtft0k3n as well, like we discussed in the other thread? I mean people have hugely differing opinions on it, and you might argue that it doesn't deserve a rating at all since the difficulty isn't solely derived from the arrows themselves. I've already explained how I play it like something in the 20s (1x speed, +2 offset, use restart trick to move arrows to middle of screen and hit the arrows on the perceived beat while ignoring the precise positions of the on-screen arrows themselves).

[ssbmchamp]

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum

RATO being 98 and VROFL being 99 makes no sense. The score gaps between the two songs are MASSIVE.

I agree and disagree with you. Yes there is a massive gap, I get that. However **IF** we keep the 1-99 scale:

1)VROFL is a 99.....no arguement (unless of course you expand the system)
2) RATO I think should be a 98 because despite a huge gap, RATO is the second hardest song in the game and, IMO, in its own category, thus being fitting of a 98.

Also a couple other things...If you wanna get technical about the massive difficulty gap with VROFL and keep it proportionate then RATO and DP should be the ONLY songs to reach the 90 mark (RATO 92, DP 90) and all these other songs people have in the 90's would then have to go into the 80's. This is why in my other post I suggested expanding the scale to 1-105 or even possibly higher to more accurately place songs. And to whoever even thought about the idea of making VROFL a difficulty of "??"....no offense, but that is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever heard. That's just the lazy way of saying "I don't feel like changing a few things around so we'll give it a mystery ranking." It needs to be either 99 or, if you expand the system, a value in the hundreds.

[Poison-]

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum

Vrofl shouldn't be on the scale at all...

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum

TWWW, p4u v1, and vrofl being unrated ?? I can agree with since those are tokens and they mess up the difficulty scales hard (TWWW having a ridiculous spike at the end, p4u having zeroframers that make it go over Death Piano physically, and vrofl being uncomparable to everything else).

Before I go into the ratings OWA posted, does this mean 90+ is still the 13 border and 77-89 is 12? (talking old scale here)

With the current expansion as the list shows, I would say that 91+ is the new 13 now, and then 78-90 is 12.

EDIT: +1 to RATO being moved to tokens; it's unfathomably hard to score on and requires a retarded element of luck to get a good score -- I have a worse score on DP, but I can acknowledge it as a file that tests many things at extreme levels compared to RATO, which is just speed/jumptrilling...

[SK8R43]

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum

I actually wouldnt mind RATO being moved to tokens. It doesnt fit in with the other public songs and is really just a dump. vROFL should definitely be off of the scale as i already mentioned and list is looking good guys!

[popsicle_3000]

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum

1)VROFL is a 99.....no arguement (unless of course you expand the system)
2) RATO I think should be a 98 because despite a huge gap, RATO is the second hardest song in the game and, IMO, in its own category, thus being fitting of a 98.

this is exactly the same thing you posted in your last comment...

the debate is whether vROFL should even be included in how we rate files. the whole purpose of this thread was so that vROFL isn't, RATO is 99, and we can spread out the higher FGOs. having a top rating of 105 is just weird, and then there are still unused ratings.


btw, I'd be happy for RATO to be moved to tokens. and not just cuz it's one of my worst lvl ranks heehee

[foxfire667]

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum

Oh good point. IMO putting RATO as a ranked file was the main mistake in the first place, but I doubt it'd be converted into a token at this point, even if the token is easily attainable. I wonder how many people would dispute that...

I doubt that anyone will have an issue with it, granted the token is fairly easy to obtain. Seeing the mash fest that is RATO leave the main level ranks sounds like a great thing in my opinion.

Then it will probably go down the lines of vROFL, where the chart is ridiculously hard and silly, but no one cares because it's a token. So the overall appreciation level of RATO's in game existence might actually improve if the change is made.

[Coolboyrulez0]

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum

RATO as a (skill) token? I'm all for it!

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum

92 looks like it'd be lowest FSO at this point, although I really don't have a problem extending that boundary down to 91 considering the hilarious spikes present in songs at that level (although Vortex will probably get pushed down if it ever gets frame treatment). I don't like the current 1-20 splits using this new scaling for the most difficult files, but then again, I've been hoping we could go back to 1-13 for quite some time now.

I don't have a problem with RATO being moved to tokens, as long as the unlock req is simple enough for players of any skill level to gain access to the file once again.

Without going into too much detail, I can agree with swapping Jamais/Husigi ratings and bumping up longer songs like Shotgun Surgery. I agree with what Eze posted about 8bit Tour and AT being of similar difficulty though. Tons of one handed bs present in 8bit Tour's trillstream, and even though it's almost 20bpm slower, I think many players find that section a lot more difficult to PA/combo than AT's 32nd run, so gonna keep those two together for now at least. WEYX probably should've been 81 to begin with so I think it's fine where it is on the new list. 11Eleven 'dense jumpstream -> one handed jumptrill -> 32nd bs' section could push it up to 82, I don't have a problem with that. Everyone's good at Eclipse nowadays for some reason beyond me, so maybe it's fine at 89? Objectively speaking, 330bpm should really be FSO material, but the patterns are so incredibly comfortable to hit...really iffy on that one, gonna leave it where it is for the time being.

Gonna switch Jamais/Husigi in the OP (Jamais fits in well with EP), as well as bump up Shotgun and 11Eleven (and maybe a few other longer songs). If bballa doesn't mind this thread serving two purposes now, might as well bring up any other songs you guys see fit to be tweaked in this thread instead of potentially having a bunch of threads once these changes are live.

edit: I'll update any changes to difficulties I make without discussion in the thread at the bottom of my first post in this thread, just in case I do something really hilarious that none of you agree with so you can all call me out on my crap :')

[stavie33]

Re: Expanding the difficulty spectrum

If RATO moves to tokens, I may get back into the game. It's been destroying my lvlranks forever. Honestly, RATO is a terrible file and should be the highest 'real' file in the game. vrofl was a joke so it shouldn't be on a scale, it should be treated like a joke, there is no way to objectively compare that file, or TWWW and P4U to any others, because what makes them challenging are things that no other file has, things beyond comparison and beyond objective ranking. How do you rate 0 framers?

On another note, I'm still unsure if CP should have a rating as well, I guess it's fair to put it in the 90's where OWA has it, but I've never like the idea of objectively placing that file, the spike is ?? material, the rest of the song is 40 range material, so it's still odd.

I pretty much agree with OWA's list though and would be fine if we adopted it.