System Doctor [90 -> 87/88]

[TC_Halogen]

I'm posting this thread because I personally don't feel like this is a 90, but I don't know where to put it simply because of how monstrously difficult the ending is. For anyone who doesn't know, System Doctor's ending is incredibly difficult to AAA because it has 260 BPM (obviously jumptrillable) 32nd rolls that alternate 3 split to 1 normal. Being that FFR's rating metric is typically off of general structural difficulty, the ending of System Doctor on a scoring level is considerably lower than a 90-difficulty file, as it is possible to FC every single 32nd roll (split or not) by doing a staggered [12][34] jump-trill. Theoretically, this isn't the easiest thing to do mid-song, but it is something to consider.

Outside of the last 200 steps, the chart does not pose much difficulty compared to any files even close within the range. Extratone Pirates murders just about every player on FFR - a 50g score will land you rank 11 on the leaderboard. However, that same score will land you rank 19 on System Doctor (and with good reason, as the most difficult area is only 200 notes long). The chart structure itself outside of the ending contains many simplistic patterns that can easily be taken on through rhythmic subdivision. For example, bursts or transitions that appear complex...





...can be taken on with simple jumptrilling with a single tap added in proper areas. The 88s currently on FFR all demand -extreme- amounts of some skill in order to be successful: Eclipse and J'ai Envie require extreme speed (330 BPM streams, or ~280 BPM jumpstream bursts, Counter Clockwise Chant Pattern requires incredible reading/pattern subdivision and control, and Slashmaid (instrumental) requires a large but balanced amount of speed, stamina, and control. System Doctor is lacking in all of these -- the largest bout of speed you have to face is a short 16th run that runs into a short 32nd wall that is easily jumptrilled through.

As far as difficulty, I'm not sure what others could possibly come to a consensus on, since the difficulty is congested in an incredibly small area. I feel like this should be an 87/88. What about you guys?

[bmah]

Re: System Doctor [90 -> 87/88]

thread approved (mind you, I added in the "87/88" to your thread title, as stating an actual difficulty is required)

[TC_Halogen]

Re: System Doctor [90 -> 87/88]

Apologies for a lack of assertion, and thank you for approving.

[EzExZeRo7497]

Re: System Doctor [90 -> 87/88]

To me, that part alone is already enough to be at 89. It's ridiculously difficult to AAA, and difficult to FC if you're trying to hit the split rolls as it is.

Add some hands, jumpjacks and fast bursts, it's enough to bump it to a 90. The bursts require 260 BPM jumptrilling, which is faster than most bursts/walls at that difficulty (Extratone Pirates), albeit shorter, besides the ending wall.

FC difficulty I'd say 87, but scoring difficulty (which is more important imo) is 90 to me, so I'd say that it should stay as a 90.

EDIT: I have no problem seeing this bumped down though.

[smartdude1212]

Re: System Doctor [90 -> 87/88]

I remember FCing this sightread (shit PA, mind you), and expecting it to be harder than it was. Yes, that ending is an absolute ass to AAA -- alliteration attack! -- but I'd have to agree with AJ's reasoning and say that this is not a 90. I would personally say 87, but I could still see it as 88.

[Guest15937]

Re: System Doctor [90 -> 87/88]

This is just the Crowdpleaser argument all over again. If that's a 91, this is a 90.

[~Zeta~]

Re: System Doctor [90 -> 87/88]

Nothing can compare to CP lol. It requires most people to overlay to even FC.

I see it fitting with 87. I don't find it harder than Almost There's 300 bpm section (89), J'ai's awkwardness, or Eclipse (88's). Especially since schmoll is currently an 87 (wut), with devour, la camp, and grind2. I think those require more effort and skill than System Doctor's jumptrill luck (hope you don't split/miss!).

I'm not denying how rigid system is, but it does all come down to jumptrilling.

[Lambdadelta]

Re: System Doctor [90 -> 87/88]

I still have a lot of trouble getting a good PA on this file and I know what the patterns are.
But if this is bumped it doesn't fit well with 87, So I'll say it feels more 88ish.

[Frank Munoz]

Re: System Doctor [90 -> 87/88]

wouldn't mind seeing it bumped down,
but some charts are still ill placed, and comparing them to others does provide a stand point but in false difficulty.
it is still all within preference of ones skill though.

[92 - Rave7] kills me more then half the time and I just end up booing out cause I know it just isn't going to be a fun ride.
[92 - do i smile] is easy as balls up until the accelerando. but does it deserve to be partnered with 7 raves??? i'm just dont noe/

these two seem like the 92 counter parts of extratones and dr to me

[bballa48]

Re: System Doctor [90 -> 87/88]

I am sure you guys know how I feel about this one.

The end of System Doctor is 93 difficulty spike type of stuff. The rest isn't too bad, so 90 fits. 87/88 just doesn't make sense. I know we aren't supposed to use individual scores, but I get 50+ goods with misses on this while I can get close to SDGs on 88s. I just don't see it.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: System Doctor [90 -> 87/88]

Nothing can compare to CP lol. It requires most people to overlay to even FC.

Yeah. You can't compare 130 bpm 16th jacks to 240 bpm 16ths. CP is about ridiculous density, System Doctor is more about transitions.

Again, transition emphasis... this part's pretty damn tricky but not enough for a 90

I'll take a look at some of the 89s and 90s:

Almost There: The one handed transitions take a lot of control. There are a select few in particular that are total ass but otherwise with the speed you can manage it well.

Vortex: Density in its jackwalls and transitions. Also horrendous frames, this file has very rough patterns and definitely deserves to be in 89 if not a 90

Magical 8bit Tour: You can technically just jump the one handed trills and still come out with decent PA, you just need some jumpjack consistency to not get a bunch of boos or averages. In terms of actually doing the one handed trills though, yeah it reaches 90+ difficulty. There are several other awkward parts, but the 32nd section stands out.

A Quick Death: The amount of 2 frame minijacks in the 32nds are disgusting, there are plenty of one handed transitions, many spots to get boos and goods, it is just in general very difficult to manage. Another file worthy of being an 89 if not a 90.

Now to the 90s:

Husigi Usagi Milk Tei: Heavy emphasis on transitions, also with density factor. Most of its difficulty comes from getting out of one handed transitions.

Winter Wind Etude: The transitions in this file suck ass, particularly at the ending. That kind of ending snaking pattern is not seen in any other file in this game and it's almost impossible to actually do legitimately.

Extratone Pirates (Drunk Optimus Remix): In terms of transitions, this isn't as bad as A Quick Death, but arguably requires more stream consistency. More emphasis on speed and minijack transitions in the jumpstreams along with a few one handed parts rather than many transitions.

Now in terms of AAAing, Schmollbluk for instance is totally NOT an 87 at all... some 87s and 88s are worse to AAA than System Doctor if you have the speed. However in terms of managing the file, System Doctor's ending is worthy of at least a 90 from its focus on transitions. The density may not be as high as say Vortex's walls/jacks but the transitions are very important.

tl;dr System Doctor should stay a 90, although I will agree it is the lowest 90 ingame

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Re: System Doctor [90 -> 87/88]

You kind of can't drop it from a 90, according to the stats of aaas / fcs it's harder than the others. Only one 90 has more AAAs and only two of them have more fcs.

You can't drop lower than an 89 if you take the statistics of the song into account.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: System Doctor [90 -> 87/88]

Liking the points in this thread. Perhaps 90 is proper.