Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

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  • GasesAreFluids
    Banned
    • Sep 2007
    • 67

    #31
    Re: Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

    Originally posted by jimerax
    Difficulty will be an important factor of rating.

    There will be newbs like "omg I can't pass this song, it's retarded. rating 0/5", or veterans like "This file is understepped and boring, rating 1/5".
    and yea rating should be changeable.

    No rating system is ever perfect, but you can get closer to perfection if you reduce ambiguity in your scales (ie. what is a 0 and what is a 5?). If it's just a purely opinionated, subjective rating then yes you may have that issue, but again, there is always a balancing effect.

    If the pros blam the easy stuff and praise the hard stuff, the newcomers might blam the hard stuff and praise the easy stuff. But you must realize that there is always going to be error in the way you judge something under that sort of view, and these types of votes may not always occur across the board. Just because you're a pro doesn't mean a song is actually "understepped" because to others it may not be and you might just be someone who enjoys mashing away at 12-taps-a-second, and to a newcomer a song isn't "retarded" just because they can't pass it. Not all hard files are good and not all easy songs are bad, and likewise is true for the other side of the coin. The point of allowing an average rating is to remove sample error and to minimize these potential offsets as more and more votes come in. Even if someone has a totally lopsided voting scheme, the central limit theorem states that even if your own distributions are not normal, the cumulative distribution will be ever so normal as you increase the number of additions (and we'll have FAR more votes than is necessary for this to be reasonable without a doubt).

    In other words, as you add more and more votes, error will slowly remove itself and things will converge to a reasonably accurate rating, even if you have a number of people who abuse the system. The proportion of abuse will be minimal -- consider how many people play every song every day. Then consider how many people would abuse the system over time. I could calculate a ballpark figure for you, but I assure you it is extremely small. I don't think difficulty will piss off enough people to abuse the system across the board and I don't think understepped songs will piss off enough people to abuse the system across the board either.


    In other words, don't worry about it too much. There will be enough legit ratings to level things out.
    Last edited by GasesAreFluids; 12-6-2007, 01:08 PM.

    Comment

    • stargroup100
      behanjc & me are <3'ers
      FFR Simfile Author
      FFR Music Producer
      • Jul 2006
      • 2051

      #32
      Re: Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

      Originally posted by Tasselfoot
      i feel like stargroup is our token old angry guy who sits in a wheelchair in the corner, bitching at everything, being ignored by everyone.
      *old guy voice* That's cause in the old days we didn't have any of your fancy speed mods and playbacks and whatever you young'uns use these days, who knows what kinds of trouble you're causing on the site... *mumbles*

      I bitch because I care. <3

      Passing it doesn't count. I'm sure most noobs can pass nearly every song they wanted, which really doesn't solve anything.

      Solution: Only users with certain age (say, >0.2 years) can vote, this way they'll be relatively familiar with the way things work and what constitues a good file or song. My best idea if we end up implementing this.

      Originally posted by Solomine Gray
      Who?
      NONBELIEVER SMITE SMITE SMITE
      Last edited by stargroup100; 12-6-2007, 01:13 PM.
      Rhythm Simulation Guide
      Comments, criticism, suggestions, contributions, etc. are all welcome.

      Piano Etude Demon Fire sheet music

      Comment

      • xinpig
        FFR Player
        • Apr 2006
        • 1072

        #33
        Re: Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

        SUPPORTED!



        PSEUDO SKILL TOKENS! FC'd Blooddrunk with AVMISSING!

        Comment

        • GasesAreFluids
          Banned
          • Sep 2007
          • 67

          #34
          Re: Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

          I don't know a lot about the way newcomers play the game because I don't have access to the data to perform any statistical analysis, but I am sure there are plenty of people who come in and play very seldomly -- setting a 0.2 year mark might not really have a statistically significant effect.

          What you could do is show the cumulative rating, and then if you click that rating, have it go to a page where it shows the breakdown of the votes by thresholds of average rank, for instance (or some other metric that is reasonably indicative of skill/time spent playing). For instance it might be like a table form of the following:

          Average Rank 1-10: 5% gave 0, 15% gave 1, 15% gave 2, 25% gave 3, 25% gave 4, 35% gave 5
          Average Rank 11-50: etc etc

          That way you could sort of gauge a song depending on your own rank (or whatever metric you prefer)
          Last edited by GasesAreFluids; 12-6-2007, 01:24 PM.

          Comment

          • bluguerrilla
            FFR Player
            FFR Simfile Author
            • Apr 2006
            • 3966

            #35
            Re: Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

            Or instead of not letting them voted compile the data of both rating and (rank, subscription age, etc) onto nice charts.

            I like charts. Pie, bar, whatever.

            Data data data!

            Comment

            • Xx{Midday}xX
              FFR Player
              • Sep 2007
              • 3518

              #36
              Re: Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

              Good opportunity to listen to some songs I haven't listened to in a while... but this means I have to play all the songs again to vote for all of them fairly...
              Any FFR song title discrepancies? List them here.
              Willing to accurately translate Japanese for free
              Accumulating all playstyles here!


              つまんないシグでスマソ(´・ω・`)

              Comment

              • behanjc
                stargroup & me are <3'ers
                FFR Simfile Author
                • Jun 2006
                • 1546

                #37
                Re: Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

                Originally posted by stargroup100
                Passing it doesn't count. I'm sure most noobs can pass nearly every song they wanted, which really doesn't solve anything.
                Lol you'd be surprised. And even if they CAN pass it, many ppl will just abuse the system by failing automatically on every song and rating it 0 for the heck of it. They should have to put in the time to play the entire song before making a rating on it. So this will decrease the amount of idiots rating files 0 and for the "few" noobs out there who would rate a file 0 because they can't pass it. And think about it. You can't rate a song/steps properly if you haven't even played a portion of the file.

                EDIT: And I'm not saying I FULLY agree with the idea (I see many people simply rating the song well because they like it even if the steps are terrible, and people who will rate all rock songs well and all other songs poorly, along with some other negative affects) but I'm trying to suggest things to make it the best it can be seeing as how it will most likely be implemented.

                Also the >0.2 years sounds like a pretty good idea. If I'm getting what Rubix says it sounds quite interesting too.
                Last edited by behanjc; 12-6-2007, 02:36 PM.

                http://www.facebook.com/BehanOfficial
                https://soundcloud.com/behanmusic/powerhouse-ep-preview-out-now

                Comment

                • Tasselfoot
                  Retired BOSS
                  FFR Simfile Author
                  • Jul 2003
                  • 25185

                  #38
                  Re: Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

                  guys. you're overthinking this, which i understand because you guys are the hardcore users... but go to any site, addictinggames or southparkzone or whatever... those are 2 large, completely different, examples. ratings are there, and they're going to be skewed... but the numbers themselves aren't usually that important... the RELATIVE ranking between them is more important.

                  although looking at southparkzone, i see that all the old episodes are rated lower than the new episodes. which i find an interesting study... i think i understand the logic in why that is, even though many of the older episodes are amazing.

                  once again, nothing will be perfect. but it's more of a nice novelty feature that basically every site has now-a-days.
                  RIP

                  Comment

                  • Linksbro
                    FFR Player
                    • Jul 2004
                    • 244

                    #39
                    Re: Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

                    you tell 'm tass

                    Comment

                    • GasesAreFluids
                      Banned
                      • Sep 2007
                      • 67

                      #40
                      Re: Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

                      I still think it wouldn't hurt to break down ratings by some other metric. It would be a very interesting and, in my opinion, useful feature.

                      Comment

                      • aTzUeLo1191
                        FFR Player
                        • Jun 2007
                        • 594

                        #41
                        Re: Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

                        Originally posted by GasesAreFluids
                        I don't know a lot about the way newcomers play the game because I don't have access to the data to perform any statistical analysis, but I am sure there are plenty of people who come in and play very seldomly -- setting a 0.2 year mark might not really have a statistically significant effect.

                        What you could do is show the cumulative rating, and then if you click that rating, have it go to a page where it shows the breakdown of the votes by thresholds of average rank, for instance (or some other metric that is reasonably indicative of skill/time spent playing). For instance it might be like a table form of the following:

                        Average Rank 1-10: 5% gave 0, 15% gave 1, 15% gave 2, 25% gave 3, 25% gave 4, 35% gave 5
                        Average Rank 11-50: etc etc

                        That way you could sort of gauge a song depending on your own rank (or whatever metric you prefer)
                        lol Rubix.

                        Awesome idea, as long as the criticism stays positive this can do no harm. 100% Support.


                        Originally posted by omgitznpv
                        brb suicide
                        JOIN TWG NAO!!!

                        Comment

                        • behanjc
                          stargroup & me are <3'ers
                          FFR Simfile Author
                          • Jun 2006
                          • 1546

                          #42
                          Re: Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

                          Originally posted by Tasselfoot
                          you guys are the hardcore users...
                          Lol. Reminded me of smitty in more than one way.

                          I know it's just a novelty type feature. I just don't think it would be too hard to make it so you have to complete the song to rate it. Obviously the ratings will be slightly skewed no matter what.

                          http://www.facebook.com/BehanOfficial
                          https://soundcloud.com/behanmusic/powerhouse-ep-preview-out-now

                          Comment

                          • sjoecool1991
                            FFR Player
                            • Mar 2006
                            • 2302

                            #43
                            Re: Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

                            Originally posted by GasesAreFluids
                            I don't know a lot about the way newcomers play the game because I don't have access to the data to perform any statistical analysis, but I am sure there are plenty of people who come in and play very seldomly -- setting a 0.2 year mark might not really have a statistically significant effect.

                            What you could do is show the cumulative rating, and then if you click that rating, have it go to a page where it shows the breakdown of the votes by thresholds of average rank, for instance (or some other metric that is reasonably indicative of skill/time spent playing). For instance it might be like a table form of the following:

                            Average Rank 1-10: 5% gave 0, 15% gave 1, 15% gave 2, 25% gave 3, 25% gave 4, 35% gave 5
                            Average Rank 11-50: etc etc

                            That way you could sort of gauge a song depending on your own rank (or whatever metric you prefer)
                            So my votes would mean nothing because I dont care about average rank?
                            I have horrible average rank, because I have lots, and lots of 0s on songs in Dance I have never played, and will never play, simply because I dont want to bother to AAA them.
                            I cant AAA easy stuff, its too slow, and I always accidentally hit too early/late.

                            Comment

                            • Xx{Midday}xX
                              FFR Player
                              • Sep 2007
                              • 3518

                              #44
                              Re: Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

                              So... this idea is still up and active, right?
                              Any FFR song title discrepancies? List them here.
                              Willing to accurately translate Japanese for free
                              Accumulating all playstyles here!


                              つまんないシグでスマソ(´・ω・`)

                              Comment

                              • Linksbro
                                FFR Player
                                • Jul 2004
                                • 244

                                #45
                                Re: Suggestion--Rating Songs/Steps

                                I hope so.

                                Comment

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