Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

[CammyGoesRawr]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

*sips tea*

lol at Winter Wind xD reasonable though

edit :

:mouthwatering:

no one ****ing complain OnO

this

[TheSaxRunner05]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

lol, Im going to have 1 point on all the FGOs and thats it =p
Something to shoot for in the future, looks good

[stavie33]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

My biggest complaint is no way is 4 Chord out of 7, it's still one of the hardest FMO's, it's long, it's stamina draining, and has very tricky and consistent jumpstream with bursts and trills that make very easy goods. It's a definite 8, especially if something as easy as Hajnal is an 8, and Brandish etc. Also Blindfolds should be an 8, it's also way harder than Hajnal to AAA and has tons and tons of tricky stuff and is LONG. It has tons of 32nd bursts, ugly mini jack jumps, and that annoying jack fest in the middle and an easy to trip up ending. So pretty much Blindfolds and Touhou at 8 (both are long and way harder than half the songs listed as 8s sense is not made) and everything else looks dandy.

[i love you]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

Make 4 Chord Touhou X/8
Make Blindfolds X/8

I will take care of that tomorrow! I really need to head to bed now! See you guys in 12 hours! (:

[stavie33]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

Here is the FGO List! If you have any suggestions/thoughts, mention it in this thread! (:

[FGO Requirement List (34 Songs)]

2. Across Rooftops [2254 Combo] [LONG]
(9) - 1 or fewer, AAA'ing FN is a billion times easier than BF'ing Rooftops, having the latter worth less is like wut?
(7) - 5 or fewer
(6) - 12 or fewer
(5) - 25 or fewer
(4) - 50 or fewer
(3) - 100 or fewer
(2) - 250 or fewer
(1) - pass the song

8. Grand Galop Chromatique [2361 Combo] [LONG]
(10) - 1 or fewer, had to add in enough to make it 10 because once more, getting a black flag on this is not even comparable to AAA'ing FN, it's like FC'ing RATO to AAA'ing a VC song IMO, it's really a huge, HUGE difference and having the same point value is absurd. It is honestly more comparable to J'anvie than AAA'ing FN IMO
(9) - 4 or fewer
(8) - 8 or fewer
(7) - 12 or fewer
(6) - 18 or fewer
(5) - 30 or fewer
(4) - 60 or fewer
(3) - 100 or fewer
(2) - 200 or fewer
(1) - pass the song

12. Holy Orders [2758 Combo] [LONG]
(8) - 1 or fewer, once more, why is this not out of 9?
(7) - 4 or fewer
(6) - 9 or fewer
(5) - 15 or fewer
(4) - 40 or fewer
(3) - 75 or fewer
(2) - 150 or fewer
(1) - pass the song

17. Kidney Stone [1619 Combo]
(9) - AAA, meh, I feel it should be 10 but whatev, AAA'ing this song is nuts it's like an 87
(8) - 4 or fewer
(7) - 12 or fewer
(6) - 20 or fewer
(5) - 50 or fewer
(4) - 100 or fewer
(3) - 200 or fewer
(2) - 400 or fewer
(1) - pass the song


24. Rage Template [1580 Combo]
(9) - 1 or fewer, another 10 I feel but whatev this one not such a biggie
(8) - 7 or fewer
(7) - 15 or fewer
(6) - 30 or fewer
(5) - 60 or fewer
(4) - 100 or fewer
(3) - 200 or fewer
(2) - 400 or fewer
(1) - pass the song

31. 12 Bar Bloops [2317 Combo] [LONG]
(9) - 1 or fewer, much more sensible and once more FN/Lolo/Reality AAA comparison
(8) - 4 or fewer
(7) - 9 or fewer
(6) - 20 or fewer
(5) - 40 or fewer
(4) - 70 or fewer
(3) - 100 or fewer
(2) - 200 or fewer
(1) - pass the song

That's all my issues, everything else is fine

[qqwref]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

Stavie, I didn't think we needed to say it again, but I will: this is not a system in which an X-point requirement on one song is the same difficulty as an X-point requirement on another song. They're just not comparable. We're using as many ratings as we need to provide enough differentiation between people who can barely read a song and people who can pretty much AAA it, and songs which are more difficult do not necessarily need more requirements.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

One thing that I'm noticing within the FGO list that is VERY appealing to me is that the songs with AAA scores for their top requirements are relatively constant/consistent for an extended duration. A few considerations from me (and while I do share some that stavie does, I share them for the reason of chart consistency, and not difficulty).

Winter Wind Etude:
12: AAA - Winter Wind Etude is a very constant chart. At 12 points, it's also very clear that it's a brutally hard requirement to make. A 12 point AAA requirement would show that you have mastered the consistency required for a good score on this.

DeVouR
10: 1 or fewer - a large majority of DeVouR's difficulty is consisted within framer discrepancies (artificial and uncontrollable difficulty), it also has some pretty disgusting bursts in somewhat arbitrary spots.

Grist
10: 1 or fewer - same reason as DeVouR.

I'd also consider changing the top four requirements for Holy Orders and loosening them slightly/proportionally.

This list is REALLY strong. You guys did a great job on it.

[stavie33]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

Stavie, I didn't think we needed to say it again, but I will: this is not a system in which an X-point requirement on one song is the same difficulty as an X-point requirement on another song. They're just not comparable. We're using as many ratings as we need to provide enough differentiation between people who can barely read a song and people who can pretty much AAA it, and songs which are more difficult do not necessarily need more requirements.

I understand that between difficulties like a VC 7 doesn't mean the VC is harder than an FMO 6, that's understandable. But within the same difficulty I thought there was discrepancy which was the reason the harder files have more points to get within one difficulty. But I understand what you're saying still...even saying that, I feel the gap within the those songs I listed themselves are too small, I still feel those adjustments would make more sense, even just looking within the song.

Also, if that's what you're doing then I hope that your tier level is not determined by total tier points. If tier points on a song are determined by how well you do on that song compared to others on that song, and not how well you do compared to others on ALL songs (which is what you're saying, which is that these tier ratings on songs are given by how many tier points per song is required to differentiate between who can read a song and who can PA it, not how well people do in comparison to eachother within the difficulty like FGO) then how could this possibly work? That would result in what you have, a AAA on FN giving a 9 and a AAA on Rooftop gives an 8. Clearly AAA'ing Rooftops takes significantly more skill, but if someone BF's both files and BF's tons of files, but can't nail AAA's, BF'ing GGC and Rooftops takes much more skill than AAA'ing FN and Lolo, yet the latter would have more tier points, and thus the representation of their comparative skills would be way, way off. By having easier songs WITHIN a difficulty giving more tier points than harder ones, obviously the tier points are going to misrepresent skill because BF's on infinitely harder songs could give less points than a AAA on a very, very easy song. Outside difficulties make sense, if you get a 6/6 on an FMO, it doesn't matter that you have 7/7 on C songs because every FMO player you're comparing too should have around those points from lower difficulties, but within the difficulty is where discrepancy lies between players of similar skill and I feel it's very important to scale songs within the difficulty based on their difficulties. Just like Winter Wind is a 12, if it were 10 for a BF on Winter Wind and 12 for a AAA on Rage Template would that make sense? No, but if for some reason that's all the points required to have a solid line for player ability on Wind and Rage then it would make sense? I'm lost here, what exactly are these tier points trying to represent? Tiers and skill between players of similar levels or just points to gnab on songs to see how you do on each song in comparison to other players? We already have level ranks for that.


Also, let me say one thing, the fact that out of 34 songs on the hardest list to judge and only 6 give me any thoughts of issues obviously you did a good job, bravo. And I have little to no complaints about the FMO list.

[BahamutZER0]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

Think I'm with Stavie on trying to be somewhat consistent on difficulty vs point value within a given FFR difficulty, if only so far as making the max points per song consistent. Not that I can actually play any of these FGOs at any level of competence :B

[i love you]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

*insert issues*
That's all my issues, everything else is fine

This seems very reasonable for the most point however I disagree with your GGC having little gaps for the first five requirements and then having bigger ones in the other half. I think what I might do is make FN have a X/8 requirement and the adventures of lolo an X/8 as well. Not sure why lolo was not a X/8 in the first place. Also, I think the requirement you gave Holy Orders is also not so balanced as well but I DO agree that it certainly does needs to be changed to X/9. I think once I change those requirements I have stated, it will balance out everything you had an issue over except for maybe rage template and 12 bar bloops which I will have to look over closely.

Winter Wind Etude:
12: AAA - Winter Wind Etude is a very constant chart. At 12 points, it's also very clear that it's a brutally hard requirement to make. A 12 point AAA requirement would show that you have mastered the consistency required for a good score on this.

DeVouR
10: 1 or fewer - a large majority of DeVouR's difficulty is consisted within framer discrepancies (artificial and uncontrollable difficulty), it also has some pretty disgusting bursts in somewhat arbitrary spots.

Grist
10: 1 or fewer - same reason as DeVouR.

I'd also consider changing the top four requirements for Holy Orders and loosening them slightly/proportionally.

I definitely agree with Grist, DeVouR and Holy Orders but I am kinda iffy about making WWE a 12-point AAA because of that polyrhythm ending. It is consistent yes but that part is just evil! D:

For the sake of consistency though, it does make sense to make the max requirement an AAA so I will THINK about it. (poor leonid xd)

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

You've got a point. That poly-rhythm ending is beyond disgusting...

...personally, I can go either way. If you want to leave it at 1g, it's not a big difference considering once you botch up a run on that song, your score goes to like 2g+ anyway.

[i love you]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

UPDATED! Let me know if something is wrong with this before I post it on the 3rd page! (:

*removed*

[TheSaxRunner05]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

Looks good to me, release it asap! =p

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

I'm fine with Saddest RMX staying as x/8 due to the short length. Across Rooftops is a nice bundle of difficulty and it's dispersed all throughout the chart. I can agree with a x/9 change for that one, but with the currently listed requirements, it's fine.

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

Agreed with the bump on Saddest only because Reality is X/9 and Saddest isn't

AR's quite a bit more difficult to PA than some of the 9s listed (most notably stuff like Gunk Tar and Ketsarku), so I wouldn't mind the one-up on that one either. You might even consider giving Tageri a bump too but that one's really borderline.