Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

[Elite Ninja]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

haha yah that's a pretty good list there remedy! I am a little sad not to see Kil Stage in there though :<

[remedy1502]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

haha yah that's a pretty good list there remedy! I am a little sad not to see Kil Stage in there though :<

That could go into the other usable songs that I forgot about lmfao. I noticed it as well a while after I posted. Obviously the list isn't set in stone and suggestions are appreciated. I just wanted to try and come up with a more balanced list to work with.

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

dat emote

[hi19hi19]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

The stretchypanda mouth









dick goes where?

[remedy1502]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

I mentioned this to Plan earlier, and I don't know if I'm on the right track with this, but it seems to me that Tier Points are almost like an alternate levelrank for everyone who isn't JUST starting. With the current lists, you get a good representation of the files from 7+, and you can see where you rank among the community, without having to play every goddamn song. Cause there's a lot of songs now, which can be extremely overwhelming for new players. I'm not sure if that's where you're going with this, but I kinda like that idea~
With this in mind, I find it absolutely ridiculous to think that tier points should be only the hardest files in each difficulty. That is a very poor representation of what we have in-game.

/2cents

ps I know we aren't really doing it yet, but how are we thinking for tier reqs per difficulty? Since we CAN go up to 99, how much of that are we going to use?

[-zeroSKILL-]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

Remedy, I think you and 95%+ of the community feel the same.

And stavie, I have read every single word of your long winded posts. What this tier point system is trying to accomplish, and what you want it to accomplish and how you feel it should be are at complete odds with each other.

In your mind you shouldn't be awarded TP for AAA'ing Tambourin Chinois when you are given no TP for AAA'ing Fast Asleep, because Fast Asleep is harder. This is *wrong*.

And your comment about this making it harder to determine better players because of your imaginary plot line is absolutely ridiculous. That would occur more if players received TP in clumps. And by "clumps" I mean people that *have* mastered a certain difficulty. In your mind you seem to think it only okay for people that have mastered a certain difficulty to receive TP in that difficulty, and that this will somehow be able to segregate people into a certain skill sect. Wtf... Just seriously... Wtf?

If players are given a guideline of steadily progressing difficult songs to master then they are forced to overcome hurdles to gain TP right from the moment they start playing FFR. Your first FC on a low difficulty 7 grants TP. Your first AAA on that 7 grants TP. You then work your way towards AAA'ing your low difficulty 8 (which I feel should be Emerald Hill just for nostalgia sake), and then you are given the goal of AAA'ing a 9, and so on and so forth.

Granting TP to solely the most difficult files in a certain difficulty range does nothing more than show that people who are getting a consistent amount of TP in the VC range should maybe be considered for higher placement in tourney's. It's better to see if a player can perform equally well on a suggestively easy file as they can on a "hard" file. Your mention of...

(Fantrastic and Rose are comparable, Carrousel Paradise and Bus Rides with People are like two other worlds)

comes to mind. For me, Carrousel is infinitely easier than Rose ever will be. Carrousel should be a 9 imo. BRWP on the other hand.... should be an 11.

People who want TP to be recognized will seek AAA's or good PA on the files in the TP list, and have a more accurate representation of their skill shown for it if we include low-mid-high difficulty songs across the board in difficulty ranges rather than pack all the hardest files of each difficulty into the TP awarding bunch. I really don't understand how this concept eludes/confuses you.

People who can AAA high 10's *should* easily be capable of attaining all TP's from high 10's and down. If they are not capable of this, then there is a discrepancy in their skill level, and something needs to be taken into consideration when placing them in tournaments or whatever. People who can barely AAA an 8, they will have far fewer points than the person AAA'ing Feldschlact, and their TP's will show this.

If your TP's aren't an accurate representation of your skill after this, you either need to play more and stop being such a fucking lazy cunt with your level ranks, or you can sit in the corner and cry some more.

If you can AAA Tambourin Chinois and receive full tP on it, SDG Hero's Theme (w.i.p.) and get partial TP, and not even FC Feldschlact your TP's will show that accordingly. You shouldn't just get TP on the hardest files, because once you can AAA BRWP or Feld, what's stopping you from AAA'ing every other 10?

We'll see how this works, I'm expecting tons of people to be landing in very high upper tiers, many in lower, and a huge, unnatural gap in the middle which would be adjusted then by extending points required to reach higher ranks exponentially, thus causing a break in the plot range and making it even harder to determine accurate placement.

With the way you suggest TP's work I can see this happening. The way it's set up I find it laughable that you even think this is a possibility. People who are lazy with their levelranks may find this happening, but it's their own damn fault. Stop being so fucking lazy and play the damn game if you care that much about your TP's.

[iironiic]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

Solid list there Mike. I like the good mixture of relative difficulties shown in your list.

And stavie, you need to learn how to shorten your posts lmfao. I'm too lazy to read walls of text early this morning xD.

EDIT: Judging by what zero said, it seems that you are attempting to make Tier Points only doable for the gurus in the game. I completely disagree with that since I know a few people who were discouraged when it comes to playing the game for fun. A lot of FFR has become "elitist" these days. We are trying to stray away from that so that more people enjoy the game for the sake of it being a fun game to play rather than figuring out who's the best of the best. There are already figures that determines that. We don't need tier points to be another figure for the gurus.

[stavie33]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

If your TP's aren't an accurate representation of your skill after this, you either need to play more and stop being such a fucking lazy cunt with your level ranks, or you can sit in the corner and cry some more.

With the way you suggest TP's work I can see this happening. The way it's set up I find it laughable that you even think this is a possibility. People who are lazy with their levelranks may find this happening, but it's their own damn fault. Stop being so fucking lazy and play the damn game if you care that much about your TP's.

Is this directed at me? My averagerank is 8 and I have a AAA on every 10 and under songs and tons of FMO's, what are you smoking? Go check things out before you start yelling at someone for being a 'lazy ****'. I obviously play this game more diligently than you as well, so I find that comment extremely unwarranted, and once more you seem to miss the point.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

Guys, take it easy. This is supposed to be a community collaboration, not a civil war.

The Tier Point list is supposed to be for elite players. What most people aren't realizing is that a majority of the active community falls in the top groups of scores (VC+ AAAs), and while you may not believe it - you too are elite as well. Tier points should start where the game begins getting more difficult for players because it gives them somewhere to strive for.

[stavie33]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

Solid list there Mike. I like the good mixture of relative difficulties shown in your list.

And stavie, you need to learn how to shorten your posts lmfao. I'm too lazy to read walls of text early this morning xD.

EDIT: Judging by what zero said, it seems that you are attempting to make Tier Points only doable for the gurus in the game. I completely disagree with that since I know a few people who were discouraged when it comes to playing the game for fun. A lot of FFR has become "elitist" these days. We are trying to stray away from that so that more people enjoy the game for the sake of it being a fun game to play rather than figuring out who's the best of the best. There are already figures that determines that. We don't need tier points to be another figure for the gurus.

It's not. It's not being elitist, as I said, by extending it to 7's, how it this giving points to guru's? Guru's AAA'ing 7's isn't even a question so having them would be irrelevant in that case, we're extending it so new players can aim for tier points from the beginning. People seem to be forgetting how tier points worked in that if you could do easier songs, you were capable of snatching tier points of the harder ones in that difficulty with FC's and shaved goods, which meant they were probably down in the lower range of that difficulty, the higher points they got on those songs, the more their skill was represented.

My main issue is this dilemma here:

Let's say we have 32 songs of difficulty 72 and below, and 8 songs of difficulty 73+. There are two players who have all tier points on all the songs 72 under and equal points of the 73+ of around 15 goods max (no SDG's). One of these players is incapable of getting good scores on most of the higher difficulty songs, but can shave down to a few points for this list, the other player, can also shave down goods on the few selected songs on the list and grab maybe 5 more tier points by being slightly better at these particular songs. This player however, is capable of AAA'ing a few 73's and some easier 74's that don't show up on this list, because some people are better at certain songs, and others aren't. They will share points all the way up the ladder except for maybe a few due to the small amount of difficult songs we've chosen (and outside of SDG'ing, it's easy to shave off good for points), but the one who can AAA some 73's and 74's is clearly has a much larger skill ability than the one who can barely shave off 73's-74's. But because they share tier points, and there are many high songs not represented, their skill gap will not be represented accurately, it could be a huge skill gap and it just doesn't accommodate to the new tier lists selections. By choosing all the hard songs, we would know based on your scores there what you are capable of all around. If you can only do the easier songs (AAA them) in a difficulty, you should be able to FC/clean FC/maybe even SDG the harder ones, but those who can AAA 3 or 4 of the harder songs, or just SDG a clump of them should be represented with a much larger skill gap, as the gap IS much larger between them, as I was trying to show with my >>>>>> display earlier. I don't feel this list will accurately represent that skill gap. Tiers are not meant to be 'oh I'm a guru look at my elusive points', they are a system to show where players fall in skill groups and how they compare to each other, with this, it will become extremely close and some who can AAA hard songs not represented will be much closer to those who can also AAA all the easier songs represented and the skill gap will be much smaller than it actually is, thus a lot of mid players will fall close in the upper echelons with some very skilled players and those who are just new or incapable of AAA'ing 8's get stuck way behind while once you can do 9's, the difference in points closes up much quicker. Maybe I'm bad at saying this but does any one understand what I'm trying to describe? Everyone seems to be telling me other things than I'm trying to say (like your trying to make tier points elitist or something stupid like that).

[stavie33]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

Guys, take it easy. This is supposed to be a community collaboration, not a civil war.

The Tier Point list is supposed to be for elite players. What most people aren't realizing is that a majority of the active community falls in the top groups of scores (VC+ AAAs), and while you may not believe it - you too are elite as well. Tier points should start where the game begins getting more difficult for players because it gives them somewhere to strive for.

Exactly this. EXACTLY THIS. And by moving it down to the 7 range, we have started tier points where the game gets more difficult. That was our goal, we did that by including 7's and not just FMO's (which is what the other list was leaning toward). This does NOT mean however, that we should be giving out easy songs so that people can get freebee tier points and feel accomplished for doing so (I constantly here new players should be able to get tier points and feel accomplished so they can push for more later, that's fine, but don't select easier songs so it's easier to get tier points, that defeats the purpose). If you can do the easier songs, you should be nabbing the low number tier points on the higher ones in that difficulty anyways, so they have tier points regardless.

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

The Tier Point list is supposed to be for elite players. What most people aren't realizing is that a majority of the active community falls in the top groups of scores (VC+ AAAs), and while you may not believe it - you too are elite as well. Tier points should start where the game begins getting more difficult for players because it gives them somewhere to strive for.

This states my biggest issue with the old system and how it's being fixed with this list. Which is sweet.

Also @Stavie: Just because you're skilled enough to AAA all the hardest songs, doesn't mean using lower AND higher ends of the spectrum gives out freebies to anyone. All the points on these lists still has to be earned by taking the time to AAA it at least once, that alone is difficult enough. Just assume that the Tier Points will be allocated to accommodate for the fact it's easier (ala worth less) and calm down.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

Exactly this. EXACTLY THIS. And by moving it down to the 7 range, we have started tier points where the game gets more difficult. That was our goal, we did that by including 7's and not just FMO's (which is what the other list was leaning toward). This does NOT mean however, that we should be giving out easy songs so that people can get freebee tier points and feel accomplished for doing so (I constantly here new players should be able to get tier points and feel accomplished so they can push for more later, that's fine, but don't select easier songs so it's easier to get tier points, that defeats the purpose). If you can do the easier songs, you should be nabbing the low number tier points on the higher ones in that difficulty anyways, so they have tier points regardless.

Here's a question though: what's the point of including lower level files when you're going to take the tops of those particular difficulties? It will actually be somewhat discouraging to someone who is capable of handling lower level file difficulties (talking about someone who AAAs mid-7's and just noticed this list). It's better to include the entire range of 7-13, not just the tops of each difficulty -- consider the 100 point scale; you would have multiple point gaps in between each tier level, which is just awkward, and somewhat disorganized.

[stavie33]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

As I said, I'm just going to wait till the list is done. I forgot that you are assigning different point scales per song now (different than before) so I'll assume the points you assign will balance the list. We'll see how it works, I'm perfectly fine with that, I wasn't against the list, I was addressing a concern I had with the functionality of the system, I wasn't trying to agitate people. The community has never really liked me or my opinions/concerns/ideas, so I shouldn't expect you guys to look at this as a question and a solution addressing concerns and you all view it as an attack on an opinion that everyone except me seems to think is held unanimously. Whatever. I'll wait and see how it works, good job everyone, I'll try to help with what I can without stating my worries or opinions, maybe I'll just compliment people for doing well like Remedy and his list.

[iironiic]

Re: Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

@Stavie:

If I am understanding you correctly, I agree that this isn't an accurate reflection of skill, but that's not what Tier Points are solely focusing on. Time commitment and dedication are also factored into the equation to obtain these tier points, which is completely understandable since rewards should be given to those who at least try. Do you believe that these two components should be rewarded as well via tier points?