Should FFR have D8?

[leonid]

Re: Should FFR have D8?

Diablo 8

[rayword45]

Re: Should FFR have D8?

The way the divisions are currently set up sort of looks like (to someone who had no hand in placements)

D5: 66-78
D6: 78-84
D7: 85-99, soon 85-120

Obviously it's not THAT linear but the D6 range is really small compared to both D5 and D7. Ignoring skillboosting after placements, I wouldn't automatically consider someone with a Mourning The Lost AAA that much better than someone with a Reality AAA but D5 has people with like 2 66 AAAs and then people who can AAA FN and Lolo in it (and then D7 is D7 lol).

Yes I realize how hypocritical of me it is to say D5 is too broad in skill and how whiny it is to say that of D7 lol

[RenegadeLucien]

Re: Should FFR have D8?

Those aren't quite accurate, at least by leaderboard placements. The more accurate numbers are:

D5: 65-76
D6: 77-86
D7: 87+

[rayword45]

Re: Should FFR have D8?

Who got placed in D6 with either only up to a 77 AAA (and no comparable scores like low SDGs on 80s) or all the way up to an 85-86 AAA?

I got placed in D5 in 4 tournaments with one or two 77 AAAs and a handful of decent (like high SDG) scores on harder songs.

[remedy1502]

Re: Should FFR have D8?

Mourning The Lost AAA that much better than someone with a Reality AAA

of course you wouldn't reality is 100000000x harder

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Should FFR have D8?

Players need to take into account diminishing marginal returns in skill gains over a period of time as players reach higher levels. Despite the aim to represent divisions through approximately equal numerical difficulty ranges, the time investment required to gain another difficulty point in 'comfort' continues to grow as difficulty increases despite trying to keep the value of +1 difficulty approximately equal across the spectrum (or for the time being, at least in the upper half).

Even though D5 represents a larger numerical range of difficulties than D6, it's fine imo as the amount of time that a player on average will need to invest to become comfortable (starting at the lowest point in that range and working towards the highest) is less than what on average is required to do so for D6.

FFR's range for D7 (prior to the 11th tourney files) was 87+. Taking into account diminishing returns in skill gains + knowing that many players are going to plateau around here regardless of how much more time they invest, in addition to the fact that numerous players have 95/96 AAAs now (with players like Etienne probably capable of snagging 97/98s and only haven't done so yet due to a single file existing in this range on FFR...)

It's kinda obvious that D8 should be officially recognized if divisions are to stay

[SpaceGorilla]

Re: Should FFR have D8?

Players need to take into account diminishing marginal returns in skill gains over a period of time as players reach higher levels.

I'm trying to keep my personal opinions out of this thread (I did vote in the poll) but I can confirm that this is indeed very true. Recently I've been struggling with a lot of rust that I'm having a huge difficulty trying to fend off. I feel it's going to take some time to regain my "D7" skill simply because of how easy it just seemed to "vanish".

[RenegadeLucien]

Re: Should FFR have D8?

and only haven't done so yet due to a single file existing in this range on FFR...)

Here lies another problem. There might be another 10 people capable of reaching this theoretical D8, but they can't because (as Mina has said time and time again on his stream) getting to the top of the leaderboard in FFR basically requires you to be good on 10 specific songs, and if you're not, you're out of luck.

So we need more 95+ songs to accurately gauge the skill of the potential D8 players. (Enter High FGO batch to the rescue?)

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Should FFR have D8?

Even without having more songs in that range and observing scores on current files, it's evident D8 should probably be officially recognized. Though obviously I'd more than welcome more 95+ files. All the top players on the leaderboards have the same files in their top 15 because there's only like 20 92+s, and if you're shit at the very few 95/96s we have atm then you're pretty much fucked in terms of getting a top 5 or top 10 rank.

Unfortunately the HSB produced less files in this range than I was hoping for since a lot of simfilers were testing vibrating in their files.

[RenegadeLucien]

Re: Should FFR have D8?

Where would you even put the cutoff then?

95 and 94 (and possibly even 93) make for too small of a D8, and 92 and below (might? correct me if i'm wrong here) chop D7 to too small of a skill range.

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Should FFR have D8?

I don't see having only 5ish players in the division at this time as being a major problem.

93 is too low of a starting point if you're looking at a level of AAA equivalency recognized on the leaderboards. Probably 94 atm, and 95 after there are more 95+ files to provide players a greater opportunity to reach that point instead of forcing them to optimize almost everything in that range.

[RenegadeLucien]

Re: Should FFR have D8?

I don't see having only 5ish players in the division at this time as being a major problem.

I don't know, I just feel really weird. Having a division of 5 people doesn't feel like a division to me, it's just Mega Rayquaza-ing the top players in the game. How would we even accommodate D8? You can't make an 8 round elimination tournament out of 5 people.

[lurker]

Re: Should FFR have D8?

divisions suck

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Should FFR have D8?

I mean the best solution is still removing divisions altogether but I feel it's pretty obvious the community as a whole wouldn't embrace that idea

[j-rodd123]

Re: Should FFR have D8?

yea I def don't agree with removing divisons. I mean I don't agree with constantly increasing the number of divisions to keep spreading out the best of the best, but no divisions seems pretty dumb