Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

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  • DossarLX ODI
    Batch Manager
    Game Manager
    FFR Simfile Author
    • Mar 2008
    • 15000

    #1

    Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

    Since Legacy itself as a genre is supposed to archive how the oldest files looked like ingame, I’d like to give my experiences and input on it.

    I encountered FFR back in 2005 which was actually not too long since the last blue note file. 2005 was only a year after the first colored file was put ingame (2004). The color converter still didn’t work properly back in this time period, because Balloon Fever had all pink notes, Crowdpleaser’s bursts and trills were a mess of red/yellow/etc., Grand Galop Chromatique had red note syndrome, and so on.

    Shashakiro took the time to recolor Crowdpleaser and GGC from what I remember -- Grand Galop Chromatique definitely got a big fix because the original file had 37 two-frame minijack and jack placements while the current version ingame has no two-frame minijacks. I don't remember exactly when this happened, but when it did, I soon started to despise the annoying blue note colorings. Back in 2005 I didn't mind as much because there weren't many files back then (you don't even reach the 200th file until late 2006!) so it seemed normal.

    The converter back in legacy times (2002-2004) also had issues; Revolutionary Etude's original file is different from the one in FFR. There was an error that converted [12] jumps into [14] jumps, so Revolutionary Etude's Anchor sections are not exactly the same. Synthlight's files were made from a .dwi recording program similar to CTRL+R in StepMania where the user taps and inserts notes into the file from whatever they pressed; needless to say, this made for plenty of offsync files. Other steppers used notepad such as Hyrogashi (who by the way did put 300 BPM 64th minijacks in Chrono Trigger on purpose).

    The legacy genre is a great archive, but I got sick of legacy way back in the day. More files came in and the converters were getting fixed. FFR went through many changes. It's bad to keep legacy in the public ranks when the game has vastly improved. Of course there are files like Beethoven Virus that were way ahead of its time, but most of the files in legacy simply just are too random; they follow the erratic feel of ancient Konami DDR charts such as Make It Better.

    I've taken the effort to AAA all legacy songs. It's certainly a beast to conquer, but it is better to leave legacy in token ranks so players can appreciate how much the game has changed over time. Legacy is an archive, not an inferior barrier to piss players off.
    76
    Yes
    0%
    45
    No
    0%
    31
    Originally posted by hi19hi19
    oh boy, it's STIFF, I'll stretch before I sit down at the computer so not I'm not as STIFF next time I step a file
  • HalfStep
    Can't AAA anything
    • Sep 2007
    • 1391

    #2
    Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

    I say yes

    4th Official Tournament - D1 34th Place
    5th Official Tournament - D3 Last Place
    8th Official Tournament - D3 3rd Place
    TSR's Summer Golf Tournament - D4 2nd Place
    FFR Multiplayer Tournament 2013 - D5 12th Place
    YoshL's Tournament of Mediocrity - 2nd Place
    TSR's Rates Tournament - Standard 2nd Place
    DRG's Team Tournament - Intermediate 1st Place
    9th Official FFR Tournament - D5 35th Place

    Comment

    • XelNya
      [Kaho]
      FFR Simfile Author
      • Sep 2012
      • 3368

      #3
      Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

      Originally posted by DossarLX ODI
      It's certainly a beast to conquer, but it is better to leave legacy in token ranks so players can appreciate how much the game has changed over time.
      Token ranks is not a place for us to dump this. Token ranks is a place for tokens. Stop using it as a place to dump the "trash."

      Originally posted by DossarLX ODI
      Legacy is an archive, not an inferior barrier to piss players off.
      It is an archive, so don't put it in any level ranks. Otherwise, it will always be more of a barrier to piss players off. Even then, if they can still be chosen in multiplayer, they still suit being a barrier more than an archive.

      Granted, I also understand that is a bit of over-thinking it. Simply put, they need to not be in any level ranks, if our interest and reasoning is as an archive.

      Comment

      • TheSaxRunner05
        The Doctor
        • Apr 2006
        • 6144

        #4
        Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

        I guess the difference is that no one plays/cares for their token rank?


        Comment

        • mi40
          FFR Simfile Author
          • Aug 2008
          • 3655

          #5
          Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

          lackluster files that are completely offsync: move to token levelranks
          files that are adequate: do not

          Comment

          • Mike Weedmark
            FFR Veteran
            • Aug 2009
            • 1196

            #6
            Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

            It should count. It's a different kind of skill.

            But songs in the Revo//Crowdpleaser (<--actually not legacy, upon checking) category are another matter.
            Last edited by Mike Weedmark; 08-2-2013, 03:14 PM.

            Comment

            • Pseudo Enigma
              ごめんなさい (/ω\)
              • Aug 2012
              • 2290

              #7
              Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

              Legacy should just die. End of story.

              however, shoving it into Legacy Ranks or some shit would be quite acceptable too.

              Originally posted by TheSaxRunner05
              I guess the difference is that no one plays/cares for their token rank?
              Maybe if this displayed on profiles or something, anywhere to remind you of your shame, people would care.

              Comment

              • XelNya
                [Kaho]
                FFR Simfile Author
                • Sep 2012
                • 3368

                #8
                Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

                Originally posted by TheSaxRunner05
                I guess the difference is that no one plays/cares for their token rank?
                Then let us just call it "FFR Level Rank Trash bin" rather than token ranks.

                No this point is entirely irrelevant.

                Originally posted by Pseudo Enigma
                Legacy should just die. End of story.
                This is the most viable option, because to be honest, most people don't wish to play the worst charts to ever be spewed forth.

                However, if I recall correctly, this isn't an option.

                As I said, if the purpose of this is to keep them as an archive, the best option is no level ranks.

                Comment

                • benguino
                  Kawaii Desu Ne?
                  • Dec 2007
                  • 4186

                  #9
                  Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

                  It feels wrong to just be throwing all the "trash" into token levelranks. I agree with Enigma, we should create a new levelranks category called Legacy Levelranks or something and stick it all in there.

                  @mike: yes, it does take skill to aaa those files. But a different type of skill. Since levelranks are a reflection of one's skill in the game, it'd make more sense to only include files that test the main skill of the game (i.e. hitting notes to the beat of the music). With something like Legacy Levelranks, you could actually get an accurate depiction of the amount of that "different skill" you are talking about as well.
                  AMA: http://ask.fm/benguino


                  Originally posted by Spenner
                  (^)> peck peck says the heels
                  Originally posted by Xx{Midnight}xX
                  And god made ben, and realized he was doomed to miss. And said it was good.
                  Originally posted by Zakvvv666
                  awww :< crushing my dreams; was looking foward to you attempting to shoot yourself point blank and missing

                  Comment

                  • I like it
                    Housekeeper
                    FFR Simfile Author
                    • Jan 2007
                    • 2122

                    #10
                    Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

                    they aren't token songs they shouldn't be in token level ranks

                    Comment

                    • TheSaxRunner05
                      The Doctor
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 6144

                      #11
                      Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

                      Originally posted by I like it
                      they aren't token songs they shouldn't be in token level ranks
                      They would need their own ranks or not be counted at all in this hypothetical situation, yes.

                      The main point is whether or not they should be counted in the public ranks at all, that's where the discussion should be.


                      Comment

                      • Nullifidian
                        ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
                        FFR Simfile Author
                        • Sep 2007
                        • 1837

                        #12
                        Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

                        Originally posted by XelNya
                        Then let us just call it "FFR Level Rank Trash bin" rather than token ranks.

                        No this point is entirely irrelevant.
                        How is this point entirely irrelevant? Seems pretty relevant to me since the only reason people play most of the public files over and over again is because the public ranks are displayed on profiles. Token ranks are not. It seems a pretty big concern that if you put them in a "hidden" level rank that their amount of plays will drastically decrease as well because it doesn't really "matter".

                        Originally posted by XelNya
                        This is the most viable option, because to be honest, most people don't wish to play the worst charts to ever be spewed forth.

                        However, if I recall correctly, this isn't an option.

                        As I said, if the purpose of this is to keep them as an archive, the best option is no level ranks.
                        How is that the most viable option? You don't like the files but others might for various reasons and not liking a file is not a good enough reason to cut them off entirely (Let's just destroy all of the historic artifacts we found cause they're just silly compared to nowadays technology, right?!). You spout some pseudo-intelligent bias and write it off as fact when all you talk about is -your- perception of the files and your personal agenda to get them removed instead of adding anything constructive. There are plenty of alternatives that are much less invasive, such as creating a legacy rank category. And I agree with I like it about not adding them to token ranks.

                        Unrelated to this topic but I'd also suggest making token ranks publically displayed because the only reason they're not played as often is because those ranks don't really "matter" except for tier points. One can still make a conscious decision to not go for these token ranks but displaying them publically gives people more of an incentive to improve them.
                        Last edited by Nullifidian; 08-2-2013, 03:48 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Charu
                          Snivy! Dohoho!
                          FFR Simfile Author
                          • Mar 2006
                          • 6206

                          #13
                          Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

                          Just my two cents.

                          If you're going to move the Legacy songs so they don't effect level ranks, then please don't stash it away to the token ranks. Right now, it seems like we have a consensus going on that agrees to make everything that's hard/awkward/offsync/BNS to move it to tokens because then it wouldn't matter to play said charts.

                          I say if you're going to do that, then please at least make a v2/v3/vWhatever to those charts in question before considering. That a way when a player passes the newest version, they can, if they so choose, play an earlier version.

                          Boom, everyone happy.


                          Originally posted by JohnRedWolf87
                          Charu the red-nosed Snivy
                          Had a very shiny nose
                          And if you ever saw it
                          You could even say it glows

                          All of the other Snivies
                          Used to laugh and call him names
                          They never let poor Charu
                          Join in any Snivy games

                          (Click the arrow to see the rest)


                          Originally posted by Vendetta21
                          All in all I would say that Charu not only won this game, his play made me reconsider how I play it.

                          Comment

                          • alloyus
                            ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
                            FFR Simfile Author
                            • Oct 2006
                            • 3269

                            #14
                            Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

                            I'd be cool with something like a legacy ranks page

                            ^FFP_D0pey btw

                            Comment

                            • Xiz
                              TWG Chaos
                              FFR Simfile Author
                              • Feb 2012
                              • 3399

                              #15
                              Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

                              Originally posted by Charu
                              ....then please at least make a v2/v3/vWhatever to those charts in question before considering. That a way when a player passes the newest version, they can, if they so choose, play an earlier version.

                              Boom, everyone happy.
                              ^ This.

                              The ones that are kinda off-sync, seriously, Give them to me and I'll re-sync them, or add colors to them, whatever. I don't care. But those files are outdated, and shouldn't be in game (as they are right now).

                              Perhaps we can add a new engine for "Legacy" files only?

                              Completely removing them I feel like isn't the way to go, it destroys part of FFR's histroy.

                              Comment

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