D8 Deb8

[EtienneSM]

Re: D8 Deb8

I'm in favor of a D8 for this OT, but I feel like that's answering the wrong question. Love it or hate it, the division system needs to go. Why? Because it encourages holding yourself back, if you care about the prizes. Let's face it, anyone in D8 whose name is not SillyFangirl is facing a serious uphill battle, if not outright playing for second place, because they are effectively in "low D8". This is not a new concept, it's been a thing for as long as the divisional system has been. Anyone who enters a tournament in "low division X," especially in the higher divisions where improving skill quickly is more difficult, is basically screwed. But if these players, when nearing the top of their division just stop improving, play less, hold themselves back, and stay at the top of their division, they have a much better chance at a positive tournament outcome. FFR itself is a game about building one's skill, why do we have a system in place that actively punishes this?

Homie, most of us have had the hardest files mindblocked for like 4 years now, there's a few people who have a shot at taking 1st LOL.

[RenegadeLucien]

Re: D8 Deb8

Homie, most of us have had the hardest files mindblocked for like 4 years now, there's a few people who have a shot at taking 1st LOL.

...Alright, maybe I chose a bad example. I can't say that I've ever had a mindblock on a file that meant the difference between an AAA and 12+ goods, but maybe it's different for you folks in D8. I don't know. But my point that the divisional system itself is counterproductive because it encourages limiting yourself still stands.

[tosh]

Re: D8 Deb8

I have a lot of opinions about this, but as someone who stopped playing at high D6 and who doesn't even enter tournaments, I'm not sure how valuable my opinions on this topic are.

However, I want to say that I'm glad that there is finally a serious discussion about D8 given that it has unofficially existed for years.

[EtienneSM]

Re: D8 Deb8

...Alright, maybe I chose a bad example. I can't say that I've ever had a mindblock on a file that meant the difference between an AAA and 12+ goods, but maybe it's different for you folks in D8. I don't know. But my point that the divisional system itself is counterproductive because it encourages limiting yourself still stands.

I went from AAA'ing the intro of RATO to getting 7/8 goods and 2 misses now almost every time.

It's rough out here lmao. Idk if Luis or Shadow have ones as bad but some files are a menace when it comes to mindblocks.

[devonin]

Re: D8 Deb8

"Divisions are bad because sandbagging" is really just nonsense.

You know what's worse than the possibility that there are people near the top of a division who don't try to improve for -2 years- holding out hope for an Official Tournament they have a chance of winning? Nobody but the top 5-10 players on the site ever winning the tournament because we're all lumped together and a D1 player won't even bother participating if they have to compete against D7/8 people.

[Dinglesberry]

Re: D8 Deb8

arrow game is very skillset based, imo you cant call any one single player the #1 player because interestingly enough all the top players have different skillsets that theyre best at, attang chordjack/jack, jake stamina/hs, snover speed, etc

I think d8 is definitely and thing and probably needed for FFR but it requires more files at the 100+ level to accommodate D8 players

[RenegadeLucien]

Re: D8 Deb8

"Divisions are bad because sandbagging" is really just nonsense.

You know what's worse than the possibility that there are people near the top of a division who don't try to improve for -2 years- holding out hope for an Official Tournament they have a chance of winning? Nobody but the top 5-10 players on the site ever winning the tournament because we're all lumped together and a D1 player won't even bother participating if they have to compete against D7/8 people.

I think this can be worked around given the right tournament structure. There's been many proposals for formats for divisionless OTs, and I know I'm not the first to suggest this.

And also, I could argue that this problem already exists, even with the divisional system. I'm currently right at the bottom of D5. My chances of winning D5 are zero. Not "virtually" zero, not "effectively" zero, but flat-out 0.00000%. There's simply no way I'll be able to close the skill gap between myself and players at the top of the division like axith, Riot, and Fluttershy in just a few weeks. If the goal of the divisional system is to create tournament ranges that anyone can win (which seems to be the primary drive to creating a D8 in the first place), I'd say it's not currently doing that. (And sorry if I'm coming across as bitter here, that's not my intention here.)

[Dinglesberry]

Re: D8 Deb8

I think this can be worked around given the right tournament structure. There's been many proposals for formats for divisionless OTs, and I know I'm not the first to suggest this.

And also, I could argue that this problem already exists, even with the divisional system. I'm currently right at the bottom of D5. My chances of winning D5 are zero. Not "virtually" zero, not "effectively" zero, but flat-out 0.00000%. There's simply no way I'll be able to close the skill gap between myself and players at the top of the division like axith, Riot, and Fluttershy in just a few weeks.

yea man i agree im in d5 too and i just have no idea how ill win i think im gonna start practicing ffr like 2 days before the OT starts but maybe not

[Poison-]

Re: D8 Deb8

There's simply no way I'll be able to close the skill gap between myself and players at the top of the division like axith, Riot, and Fluttershy

Yes there is. We see it nearly every tournament.

[PhantomPuppy]

Re: D8 Deb8

There's simply no way I'll be able to close the skill gap between myself and players at the top of the division like axith, Riot, and Fluttershy in just a few weeks.

like what poison said, i've seen people go up from D5 to top of D6 over the course of an OT. i don't think there's been one yet where a case like that hasn't happened.

edit: yes, i'll admit it's frustrating when people in my own division get sudden skill increases during OT, but at the same time it means that they put a LOT more effort in that i haven't seen.

[RenegadeLucien]

Re: D8 Deb8

Who has won from the bottom of a division in the past? I can't remember anyone winning from the bottom of a division above D3.

And I actually wish there were records of the skill ratings of OT winners/high placers before and after the OT so we'd have hard numbers on this. Especially since then we'd be able to have "most improved" awards and such.

edit: So there actually were such stats last tournament, courtesy of Trumpet. Now if only I knew who won last time...

[Charu]

Re: D8 Deb8

Oh, this is a thread.

I have not played in FFR in forever and have not read all of this thread...

...The demand for when D7 was made was done due to not just one person, but multiple players achieving scores and goals that, realistically, other D6 contenders could not hope to obtain.

I think right now, we still have a short supply of actual D7 players, thus I believe D8 should NOT be a thing at all. Least not until D7 faces the problem that D6 players faced. It has not come to that point yet.

...

However, I think, if there is absolutely a demand for a title, I'd approve. Just nothing to do with OT since, well... I really don't see a reason to make an entire division just because of ONE player...

I'm assuming it's because of that one player anyways, lol.

[MikeShinoda12345]

Re: D8 Deb8

Who has won from the bottom of a division in the past? I can't remember anyone winning from the bottom of a division above D3.

Off the top of my head, OneHandNow (mi40) and YoshL are two players who catapulted waaaaay beyond their division over the course of an OT. Also lol a "most improved" award makes FFR feel like a Kindergarten class, personally ._.

yes, i'll admit it's frustrating when people in my own division get sudden skill increases during OT, but at the same time it means that they put a LOT more effort in that i haven't seen.

lol sorry hahaha

[s1rnight]

Re: D8 Deb8

my opinion is they shld make d8 whoever currently has a higher rank than user "samurai7694", cuz i rmemeber that guy being the best guy at this game on the site when i was here, and apparently some new super freaks from outer space have arrived, so that seems correct and symbolic to me

hello btw i havent been here in a while

[Charu]

Re: D8 Deb8

Though, now thinking about it.

If the skill gap for D7 players is that much of an issue currently (as is said by some D7 players already), then why not just put the offending players that are just so beyond other D7 players placed in a "special" division (not d8), the catch is though they have to AAA every file D7 uses, otherwise they're out.

If players get all AAA's on every file in D7, make them play a tiebreaker on an alt engine that's harder than RATO. If they somehow AAA that as a tie, keep going until you literally have to use unfair DUMPS if you need to.