9th Official Tournament: Post-Competition, Closing, and Suggestions

[Xiz]

Re: 9th Official Tournament: Post-Competition, Closing, and Suggestions

In my eyes, I'll be short and to the point:

Pros:

- The amount of dedication by ALL of the staff to get this set up was well done. A huge thank you is in order, especially you AJ who somehow didn't explode and rage-quit though everything this tournament.

- The songs were fun. I enjoyed the files in every division a lot more this year. While they might have not been technically challenging as others would suggest, they still were fun to play.


Cons:

- Placements were a tad off, that's obvious

- The timing of this tournament. Over thanksgiving is something I wouldn't recommend. Can we go back to starting at the start of the summer or something? Everyone won't be happy with that, but I find it might be better.

- Lack of files to choose from I guess


Suggestions?

(A lot of these might be stupid, but they will get the ball rolling perhaps...)

- Perhaps make a separate Tourny batch, and keep it more secret. Like PM batch notes secretly and hide the submissions so only the step-artists and judge team know the files? Makes the surprise more interesting haha

- For the people who get out rounds 1-3 ... perhaps a looser bracket of something can be taken into account? Like have them play the lower division until the end? (This will require a different spreadsheet for those put in the looser bracket, like a second chance at the tourny?)

- IRL prizes. I wanted to do some this year but financially I sadly couldn't. I could perhaps do prizes next year though. That would be such a nice little bonus.



Overall, great work staff. Looking forward to the 10th

[EzExZeRo7497]

Re: 9th Official Tournament: Post-Competition, Closing, and Suggestions

As someone who was somewhat behind the scenes (file selection), I really felt that you started the tournament with insufficient preparation and prior planning (both in files and the fact that you had a really tight work schedule), so I really didn't expect the tourney to go all that well. But it is remarkable that you managed to make the tournament as enjoyable as it is for most people, even though you had a rough schedule and a very limited selection of files to pick from.

D7 really had it easy this time round, although D7 is supposed to be the division that will destroy everything, they shouldn't be having such tight cutoffs at the latter part of the tournament (there wasn't any cutoff that's worse than a blackflag in the entire tourney), so I think you should've used harder files for the tournament overall. You might say that it would put too many hard files into the game, but if you think about it the only time we actually get difficulty 90+ files are from tournaments. But seeing that the hardest file in the batch (aside from tiebreakers) was Heterochromia Iridis (and with frame fixes/your fix the file is easier) and you really didn't have enough hard files that weren't over the top (Bolt Thrower <_>), I can see why you couldn't do that.

I'm really surprised with how D5 performed this tournament, you guys are absolutely insane. Although they were a couple of files that are overrated (such as Shatterscape) and even if they weren't overrated (Umbral Ultimatum), you all had ridiculous cutoffs that I don't think anyone would have anticipated before the tournament. Good job to all of you guys, jesus christ.

All in all, it was a good tournament. I still feel that the tournament should've started later so that the experience would be better and it wouldn't cause as much stress to you (AJ) than it really caused, but I'm pretty sure everyone's satisfied by your efforts. Placements were generally fine (there are some iffy people, such as NekoGon and SaFyre), the files used for the tournament were okay but could use a little more diversity, but I'd say the tournament structure turned out fine, it could be worse, not to mention considering the limited file selection it's really difficult to make a really good tournament structure with what you have. A lot of people skill boosted from the tournament and I'm pretty sure most of the competitors enjoyed themselves.

Good job on the tournament AJ.

[YoshL]

Re: 9th Official Tournament: Post-Competition, Closing, and Suggestions

Suggestions?

- Perhaps make a separate Tourny batch, and keep it more secret. Like PM batch notes secretly and hide the submissions so only the step-artists and judge team know the files? Makes the surprise more interesting haha

- For the people who get out rounds 1-3 ... perhaps a looser bracket of something can be taken into account? Like have them play the lower division until the end? (This will require a different spreadsheet for those put in the looser bracket, like a second chance at the tourny?)

- IRL prizes. I wanted to do some this year but financially I sadly couldn't. I could perhaps do prizes next year though. That would be such a nice little bonus.

This...may be interesting? although much more effort. With a tourney batch, estimating at about 100 files, maybe on average everyone submits 2 songs. that's 2 reviews per group of 4 judges that need to be sent to 50 different people.

that's a lot of management, just for the sake of keeping the batch secret. In any case, round previews were nice, and no-one really knew 100% what was coming up in rounds

--

loser bracket, didn't reuben have his thing going? i didn't exactly follow the thread so i don't know how that tourney worked, but there could easily be an unofficial side thing like that

--

irl prizes are tough because there've been past years where people didn't recieve the prizes that they were told that they were gonna get (cough choofers cough cough cough), so unless one of the event staff (probably Kayla) has the prizes physically so she/AJ can make sure that they're properly distributed at the end of the tourney, it's probably just easier to not?

[awein999]

Re: 9th Official Tournament: Post-Competition, Closing, and Suggestions

Very interesting tourney, well done, especially considering this is all non-profit. All song choices were logical and it went smooth enough that there are no real cons imo.

I'd like to see an easy batch and 1 song+ of lvl 20 or lower added to the game every week during an official. I want the site to try to be a little more newbie friendly during this event. It's easy to forget about that.

Edit: I don't really know what "batch" entails. I just mean 1 easy song minimum to go with all the competitive songs every week.

[Xiz]

Re: 9th Official Tournament: Post-Competition, Closing, and Suggestions

This...may be interesting? although much more effort. With a tourney batch, estimating at about 100 files, maybe on average everyone submits 2 songs. that's 2 reviews per group of 4 judges that need to be sent to 50 different people.

that's a lot of management, just for the sake of keeping the batch secret. In any case, round previews were nice, and no-one really knew 100% what was coming up in rounds

--

loser bracket, didn't reuben have his thing going? i didn't exactly follow the thread so i don't know how that tourney worked, but there could easily be an unofficial side thing like that

--

irl prizes are tough because there've been past years where people didn't recieve the prizes that they were told that they were gonna get (cough choofers cough cough cough), so unless one of the event staff (probably Kayla) has the prizes physically so she/AJ can make sure that they're properly distributed at the end of the tourney, it's probably just easier to not?

Agreed, this requires more effort. It's mostly to surprise everyone, instead of everyone guessing what is next, ya know?

--

Kinda-not really. While Rubens thing was fucking sweet, I'm proposing something different. For example, lets say during the tournament round 1, this happens:

I'm just choosing random names, to show point lol

Example D5:
Dossar
AlexDest
YoshL
Sweet Angel
Fission (Out round 1)
Danceguy117 (Our round 1)
Charu (Our round 1)
Poison- (Our round 1)


^ Take those four who got eliminated, and put them in their own bracket one division lower for next round (Instead of them ghosting their current bracket)

D5 Looser bracket (Playing current D4 song)
Fission
Danceguy117
Charu
Poison-


Every round add in the eliminated from the previous round, till a 'Loser Bracket Winner'

Fission
Sweet Angel (Out round 2)
Danceguy117 (Out round 2)
YoshL
Charu
Poison-


...Not sure if that makes sense. Let me know if not. But that's kinda what I was thinking

---

Yeah, I get what'cha mean. The prizes need to already be done and ready to go. Like already in the hands of Mr & Mrs. Halogen or something prior to tourny start instead of during or whatever.

[Dynam0]

Re: 9th Official Tournament: Post-Competition, Closing, and Suggestions

First off, big thanks to AJ and everyone who was behind the scenes and who made the tourney what it was. Even if there were a few bumps in the road, it's far outweighed by how successful this was overall. 56 great new files in 8 weeks time and among those, some hard files to mess people's level ranks up . Also moches did a great job with the weekly updates/stories, had me laughing quite a lot

When the tourney began, I realized how dire my situation to place well would be because of how prone to mind-blocking I am (after 1 or 2 plays it's pretty much gg depending on the file). So I'm proud of the fact that I was able to AAA up to Epi v2 even though some would consider these rounds yawn-worthy. I really agree with smartdude though that there needs to be more stress on challenging the PA of D7 rather than how consistent and studious they are in dealing with AAA-or-die situations (especially considering how much of a disadvantage it is to be limited to playing on the Legacy engine where slowing the song down or isolating patterns is such an asset for these AAA or die rounds). It's not that this tourney gave out bogus results for who was best, but I feel that it would be more exciting to see people duking it out for higher raw score on files with insane difficulty than walking the AAA tight-rope all the way through.

Congrats to all the winners and participants in each division. D5 showed insane improvement throughout the tourney so I think we'll see a really tough D6 for next official

[Toccy]

Re: 9th Official Tournament: Post-Competition, Closing, and Suggestions

I feel like cumulative scoring is unfair to the majority of the players. The lucky people that get put in their divisions with the highest skill at the beginning have the best chance to win. Elimination tournaments give people time to improve so that at the end of the tournament, the skill level they had in the past doesn't effect how well they place.

[Charu]

Re: 9th Official Tournament: Post-Competition, Closing, and Suggestions

To be honest, I would like to see how a divisional (but not in a sense that FFR thinks of it) bracket style tournament would go. Not quite sure how it would effect how song picks would go, but I'm really curious on how it would turn out.

Like, you have four blocks that all do an easy song for round 1. I can see a problem with multiple tie-breakers, but I'm thinking it'll have to come down to who has the better MA (perhaps) or the tie breaker be a song that's just as hard or harder than RATO (pretty much a song that will guarantee no AAA's regardless of skill level).

I'm thinking this because this will decrease the drama of being not placed properly and or sandbagging. It'll pretty much be the luck of a draw type of situation and if a D1 player faces a D7 player, it's pretty much tough luck for the D1 player.

[choof]

Re: 9th Official Tournament: Post-Competition, Closing, and Suggestions

(cough choofers cough cough cough)

bless u

[XelNya]

Re: 9th Official Tournament: Post-Competition, Closing, and Suggestions

in the case of YoshL. As mentioned in the first post, he was an incredibly huge help at the start of the tournament, and he made a really stupid mistake. I don't know what his thoughts were, but I really can't come to terms with banning YoshL (or at least, banning him for an extended length) when he's had an overall positive impact on the community with good simfiles, a few hosted events, and his overall positive attitude.

Eh I actually have to kind of agree with Choofers that maybe a forum ban is a little irrelevant to cheating. I also have to admit he's done a lot of good things for the community.

However at a minimum he had better get a levelrank wipe. Mistakes are made and we've unblacklisted accounts before so I see no need in doing that, but he'd better lose all his level ranks and such. That's just a standard cheating punishment from what I recall.

All in all it seems like everyone else enjoyed it. So good job I guess.

My two cents is that save for I think it was Xiz's chart Xenosaga (W/e it was called) and Xd's Mirage Garden, all the files look like your typical Official simfile stuff. Hopefully next year we get a better variety as I feel that was this years downfall. We need more files like Mirage Garden and less files like The Party Is Starting. The D5 file round one was a HUGE turn off for me personally. But that's just me.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: 9th Official Tournament: Post-Competition, Closing, and Suggestions

In my eyes, I'll be short and to the point:

Pros:

- The amount of dedication by ALL of the staff to get this set up was well done. A huge thank you is in order, especially you AJ who somehow didn't explode and rage-quit though everything this tournament.

- The songs were fun. I enjoyed the files in every division a lot more this year. While they might have not been technically challenging as others would suggest, they still were fun to play.


Cons:

- Placements were a tad off, that's obvious

- The timing of this tournament. Over thanksgiving is something I wouldn't recommend. Can we go back to starting at the start of the summer or something? Everyone won't be happy with that, but I find it might be better.

- Lack of files to choose from I guess


Suggestions?

(A lot of these might be stupid, but they will get the ball rolling perhaps...)

- Perhaps make a separate Tourny batch, and keep it more secret. Like PM batch notes secretly and hide the submissions so only the step-artists and judge team know the files? Makes the surprise more interesting haha

- For the people who get out rounds 1-3 ... perhaps a looser bracket of something can be taken into account? Like have them play the lower division until the end? (This will require a different spreadsheet for those put in the looser bracket, like a second chance at the tourny?)

- IRL prizes. I wanted to do some this year but financially I sadly couldn't. I could perhaps do prizes next year though. That would be such a nice little bonus.

Overall, great work staff. Looking forward to the 10th

Cons:
Placements: yeah, there were a few errors, namely in the D5/D6 area. D1-D4 (minus Deidara, lol) and D7 came out respectably well.

Timing: the timing of this tournament was definitely not the best, but I did my best to roll with it. It was pushed out as fast as it was to try and make room for the upcoming 10th official, since we did want that to happen in the summer. Because of that, it was a bit rushed out. I did what I could.

Suggestions:
Separate tournament batch? That's going to take a lot of planning with the game management -- also, you could expect slightly lower quality files in the upper area because people are trying to force files out rather than making files at their normal quality/standard. It is a risk that I am having trouble taking.

IRL prizes were something that would have been lovely, but I wasn't quite in the situation to offer that.

The other tournament structure would be quite difficult to automate and would be difficult to keep updated without another dashboard (and then integrating it altogether would be hard/senseless because you would have to create another database just for that particular purpose).

As someone who was somewhat behind the scenes (file selection), I really felt that you started the tournament with insufficient preparation and prior planning (both in files and the fact that you had a really tight work schedule), so I really didn't expect the tourney to go all that well. But it is remarkable that you managed to make the tournament as enjoyable as it is for most people, even though you had a rough schedule and a very limited selection of files to pick from.

D7 really had it easy this time round, although D7 is supposed to be the division that will destroy everything, they shouldn't be having such tight cutoffs at the latter part of the tournament (there wasn't any cutoff that's worse than a blackflag in the entire tourney), so I think you should've used harder files for the tournament overall. You might say that it would put too many hard files into the game, but if you think about it the only time we actually get difficulty 90+ files are from tournaments. But seeing that the hardest file in the batch (aside from tiebreakers) was Heterochromia Iridis (and with frame fixes/your fix the file is easier) and you really didn't have enough hard files that weren't over the top (Bolt Thrower <_>), I can see why you couldn't do that.

I'm really surprised with how D5 performed this tournament, you guys are absolutely insane. Although they were a couple of files that are overrated (such as Shatterscape) and even if they weren't overrated (Umbral Ultimatum), you all had ridiculous cutoffs that I don't think anyone would have anticipated before the tournament. Good job to all of you guys, jesus christ.

All in all, it was a good tournament. I still feel that the tournament should've started later so that the experience would be better and it wouldn't cause as much stress to you (AJ) than it really caused, but I'm pretty sure everyone's satisfied by your efforts. Placements were generally fine (there are some iffy people, such as NekoGon and SaFyre), the files used for the tournament were okay but could use a little more diversity, but I'd say the tournament structure turned out fine, it could be worse, not to mention considering the limited file selection it's really difficult to make a really good tournament structure with what you have. A lot of people skill boosted from the tournament and I'm pretty sure most of the competitors enjoyed themselves.

Good job on the tournament AJ.

I can tell you that I actually had a pretty solid organization at the very start of the tournament; I was really well composed and had tabs on everything, but by round 3 or so, everything fell apart. That was the point where I realized that I was in a really nasty situation and was just going to have to trudge through everything the best that I could.

I do intend on using harder files for D7 next tournament, without question. I feel that the tournament would be more interesting with a very slow but progressing difficulty gradient, starting at around 83 or so, pushing all the way up to around 97/98 (as opposed to 95/96). The tournament would actually be difficult for D7 players come round 6. The toughest part is getting the files necessary (this kinda goes hand-in-hand with Xiz's idea).

I really appreciate the criticisms/discussion, guys. Everything will help for the future.

[popsicle_3000]

Re: 9th Official Tournament: Post-Competition, Closing, and Suggestions

- IRL prizes. I wanted to do some this year but financially I sadly couldn't. I could perhaps do prizes next year though. That would be such a nice little bonus.

finally, a tournament where IRL prizes weren't promised.
remember the last couple tourneys?? pictures, promises, excuses, silence. none of it eventuated.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: 9th Official Tournament: Post-Competition, Closing, and Suggestions

The problem with having excessively hard files is considering the fact that FFR is not just composed of D6 and D7 players and I don't like the idea of having other players play a file of that difficulty. For something like a D7 tiebreaker (e.g. Bolt Thrower) it should just be a temporary file ingame, then removed after the tiebreaker situation ends.

[Toccy]

Re: 9th Official Tournament: Post-Competition, Closing, and Suggestions

The problem with having excessively hard files is considering the fact that FFR is not just composed of D6 and D7 players. For something like a D7 tiebreaker (e.g. Bolt Thrower) it should just be a temporary file ingame, then removed after the tiebreaker situation ends.

Why should it matter that someone has to be D6 or D7 level to play a file? Harder files give me more motivation to get better so that I can actually play them and have fun instead of mashing.

[yo man im awesome]

Re: 9th Official Tournament: Post-Competition, Closing, and Suggestions

The problem with having excessively hard files is considering the fact that FFR is not just composed of D6 and D7 players and I don't like the idea of having other players play a file of that difficulty. For something like a D7 tiebreaker (e.g. Bolt Thrower) it should just be a temporary file ingame, then removed after the tiebreaker situation ends.

FFR isn't composed of just D1 and D2 players, should we just remove the ridiculously easy files because it's impractical for other players to be playing files of that difficulty?