Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

[Korygon]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

I'd be happy to do something only if I'm dealing with a smaller batch...doing 135 files for one batch (the June 2009 batch) just killed my enthusiasm.

THANK YOU BMAH

This is the exact point I'm trying to make

[who_cares973]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

Groups I propose:

1:
Kory
Patashu
Rebirth

2:
Kommisar
NSane
bmah

3:
Gundam-Dude
WC
Mystery 12th person

4:
Jimerax
Halogen
Silvuh

those in bold have judged previously for the batch and those in italic are very familiar with the judging process and could easily judge given all they know. so pretty much every person here knows how ffr files should look and wont be trying to shape ffr files to be more like sm files.

also kayla i wouldnt recommend you as a judge not because you arent in an elitist stepmania group but because i dont really know the extent of your abilities. silvuh and bmah arent lcs they arent dcs hell they arent part of any stepping group that i know of at all and pretty much everyone recommends them as judges because theyre known for making good files and have shown that by producing high quality replayable charts. stop assuming that because we're part of a group that we all think the same and expect the same from everyone. you pretty much always categorize us with stargroup. just because his bar for file quality is retardedly high doesnt mean everyone thinks like he does

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

That's why I split the groups up how I did. Go look at them again.

Each group has a technical judge, one who just cares about fun factor, and one who's more of an all-around type of judge. Thats the whole point. If you know what your doing, your judgements of a file should be very similar. Thats why we can split it up, because no use getting 40 people to say the same thing on a file when 3 works just fine

edit: exactly what patashu said

If everyone's judgments on a file are similar, you're implying that there's no difference in opinion even for minor details. Again, it goes back to bias. Also, I see a hell of a lot of technical judges in that list, but I might be wrong.

I have no issues splitting up the batch, but there's always that bias that could (rarely) exist between the x amount of users in each group judging in the same manner.

[Korygon]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

Carlos I'm hurt. I've been around this place for years I know what good FFR files look like. Italicize me dammit ;___;


but agreed in all other points

[who_cares973]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

i dont ever remember you being involved in this thread at all sorry kory : x

[Patashu]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

files being judged differently by different judges isn't the big problem it seems to be made out to be, because
1) judges already change over time (both in terms of each judge's personal approach and which judges do each batch). in fact, sometimes what a judge decides to put down depends entirely on what mood they're in, what they've looked at recently and what other people's opinions that they've heard of are! I've personally re-arranged my judgements after looking at later files
2) assuming reasonable picks, terrible files won't be accepted and awesome files won't be rejected, it's only ones that are murky and controversial that might be giving the 'wrong' rating, but hasn't this always been an issue?

is it a perceived fairness issue? e.g. 'I submitted a file and judges A B and C rejected it, but if X Y and Z judged it instead it would have gotten in'? because of 1) this is a problem with or without batch splitting. the urge to 'scum' the batch for a judge set who will like your file won't be that high either, because of the multimonth gap between batches you may as well spend the time improving it so it will be more acceptable anyway.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

Also - one other thing that I'm confused about within the judging team - what happens if a member goes AWOL?

Again, I may sound like I'm shooting down the system, but it's because it seems like there's a lot of unanswered questions/ambiguous details that I'm not aware of. To me, it looks like a really odd system and I may very well be ignorant to how everything works.

[Korygon]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

If a member goes AWOL then they get replaced. Not too hard.


Carlos I was an asshole bugging everyone about bad files back in the rshadow days =)

[psychoangel691]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

also kayla i wouldnt recommend you as a judge not because you arent in an elitist stepmania group but because i dont really know the extent of your abilities.

I've been going through files for the 10 months for the custom. I had people like Byron sending me files to check out even before that. I've learned pretty much everything there is to know about the technical stuff between all the people I listed earlier. Plus I've been playing FFR for almost 6yrs now staring at charts seeing how they evolved, etc. But that's why I didn't even bother offering to help because regardless of all of that, I wouldn't be looked at as good enough to do it anyway because I haven't made a bunch of files that are in packs or in game. I dabble in a ton of stepping but I'm too damn shy to really show any of it to anyone because of the way I've seen some judges be. Some of them just sit there and put people down when they're trying to do their best and learn. I'm not saying every judge does that but I've seen a ton of that go on.

All and all I just don't want to see a group that's going to be all super technical and suck the fun out of it all.

[jimerax]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

More like you drop a crap-ton of the members who are going to judge the same way, and go back to FFR's old judging where it was only three to five people. This team stuff is really stupid because it's going to make batches a crap-ton longer.

Old system requires a lot of task for judges due to the # of submissions, and we know it's difficult to keep doing. plus, the judgement was actually delayed so many times in the past.

On this team system, if a judge can't do judgement until the deadline for some reason other judges or backup judges can make up for it.

Fairness is only point people would complain but isn't really a big issue like patashu said (as long as a team has 3+ judges), since judges were changed like everytime on old system.

[Patashu]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

Also - one other thing that I'm confused about within the judging team - what happens if a member goes AWOL?

The answer 'someone else takes their place' seems simple enough, but it assumes a base of communication. As in, it will immediately be known how much work someone else has done or if queried about it they will swiftly respond.

Ultimately, the onus will have to be on the judges to report how much they've done, to facilitate the remainders being done by someone else.

EDIT: Oh, and I'd like to see psychoangel judging.

[who_cares973]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

I've been going through files for the 10 months for the custom. I had people like Byron sending me files to check out even before that. I've learned pretty much everything there is to know about the technical stuff between all the people I listed earlier. Plus I've been playing FFR for almost 6yrs now staring at charts seeing how they evolved, etc. But that's why I didn't even bother offering to help because regardless of all of that, I wouldn't be looked at as good enough to do it anyway because I haven't made a bunch of files that are in packs or in game. I dabble in a ton of stepping but I'm too damn shy to really show any of it to anyone because of the way I've seen some judges be. Some of them just sit there and put people down when they're trying to do their best and learn. I'm not saying every judge does that but I've seen a ton of that go on.

All and all I just don't want to see a group that's going to be all super technical and suck the fun out of it all.

well there you go. get known and you might get considered for judging positions for packs or ffr. if you dont get involved then you wont get noticed

[psychoangel691]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

EDIT: Oh, and I'd like to see psychoangel judging.

Somehow I find that kinda hard to believe lol.

[Patashu]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

Why do you not believe me? Is it because I'm perceived as an elitist and thus by definition must have views that crush the stepmania proletariat?

[Korygon]

Re: Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

psychoangel, I dont think most of us have any issues judging. Problem is we don't know your abilities. Once you get a bit more known to the stepfile portion of the community, then there will be no more question.


Sorry to say, but pretty much everyone who didn't get involved with DF has no idea about your judging skills or anything of the sort