Fair Use / Copyright Law & FFR

[benguino]

Re: Fair Use / Copyright Law & FFR

As for a precedent, well osu! doesn't acquire any permissions iirc and from what I recall they are actually for-profit lmfao.

[mi40]

Re: Fair Use / Copyright Law & FFR

gg

[Xiz]

Re: Fair Use / Copyright Law & FFR

As for a precedent, well osu! doesn't acquire any permissions iirc and from what I recall they are actually for-profit lmfao.

Well, truth be told if anyone decides to whistle-blow on them, Osu! can be shut-down immediately and permanently if they are actually making a profit off of that game. Donations are perfectly acceptable because it falls into the non-profit category, but if there are any advertisements on the website, or real money purchases for levels / songs in the game (this includes online 'coin' transfers like bit-coins) then that is a huge violation of copyright law and the game owners and creators can get in trouble. If they do, they will most likely get a C&D letter. In business thats typically the appropriate course of action unless there is a significant profit being earned. If they fail to comply, then they will be in court in no time.

[benguino]

Re: Fair Use / Copyright Law & FFR

Well, truth be told if anyone decides to whistle-blow on them, Osu! can be shut-down immediately and permanently if they are actually making a profit off of that game. Donations are perfectly acceptable because it falls into the non-profit category, but if there are any advertisements on the website, or real money purchases for levels / songs in the game (this includes online 'coin' transfers like bit-coins) then that is a huge violation of copyright law and the game owners and creators can get in trouble. If they do, they will most likely get a C&D letter. In business thats typically the appropriate course of action unless there is a significant profit being earned. If they fail to comply, then they will be in court in no time.

I think the money they do make might be some workaround or loop-hole of some sort. You see, the osu members can pay for a "donation" that costs $4/month that entitles them to additional features in the game. I don't know if just calling it a "donation" makes it ok though.

Another thing I heard was that the money is used for the upkeep and maintenance of the site (which could possibly be considered non-profit if the cost of maintenance is equal to the amount of "donations"), but from what I've heard, the developer/owner of the game "Peppy" has quit his day job to entirely devote his time to osu so I figure he must be making some money to at least make a living of some sort, idk.

[Choofers]

Re: Fair Use / Copyright Law & FFR

that's definitely iffy but as long as those "additional features" don't include copy righted music, then it's good

[Xiz]

Re: Fair Use / Copyright Law & FFR

I think the money they do make might be some workaround or loop-hole of some sort. You see, the osu members can pay for a "donation" that costs $4/month that entitles them to additional features in the game. I don't know if just calling it a "donation" makes it ok though.

Another thing I heard was that the money is used for the upkeep and maintenance of the site (which could possibly be considered non-profit if the cost of maintenance is equal to the amount of "donations"), but from what I've heard, the developer/owner of the game "Peppy" has quit his day job to entirely devote his time to osu so I figure he must be making some money to at least make a living of some sort, idk.

From my understanding, that would be okay IF legal documentation was kept on the administrative end (in terms of where every penny went, by who and whatnot). However, since internet law is still young, there are still many many loopholes that can be gotten around. For example, mega.co.nz is a loophole.

EDIT: However, there is something in the back of my mind that still tells me that just because 'Peppy' has yet to be caught dosen't mean what he is doing is legal. I don't know. I'm gonna reread this doctrine and try to find out what I can on that instance.

[Fission]

Re: Fair Use / Copyright Law & FFR

i would think that osu! is popular enough that some record company is going to catch wind and could take legal action against osu! if they so chose. however, this hasn't happened yet for osu! so in reality, what is the likelihood that this could happen to FFR? FFR is more under the radar than osu! is (look at the player count), so there should be even less of a chance of legal action being taken against FFR under the same circumstances.

can one of the admins comment on what osu! is doing and how it compares to FFR in terms of using copyright material? this is a pretty big deal and it could mean a lot for FFR's future.

[Xiz]

Re: Fair Use / Copyright Law & FFR

i would think that osu! is popular enough that some record company is going to catch wind and could take legal action against osu! if they so chose. however, this hasn't happened yet for osu! so in reality, what is the likelihood that this could happen to FFR? FFR is more under the radar than osu! is (look at the player count), so there should be even less of a chance of legal action being taken against FFR under the same circumstances.

Well, keep in mind FFR is non-profit. We do not profit off of anything on this website so we are WAY WAY lower on the radar, perhaps not even on the radar at all, in all honesty.

can one of the admins comment on what osu! is doing and how it compares to FFR in terms of using copyright material? this is a pretty big deal and it could mean a lot for FFR's future.

I know nothing about osu! really besides what people are telling me, I'd like to hear a comment about this as well.

[Fission]

Re: Fair Use / Copyright Law & FFR

even if you don't know much about osu!, the important thing to note is that osu! uses whatever it wants in terms of content and the staff evidently doesn't care if it's copyrighted or not.

i don't know if this has been touched on in this thread or in other places, but i'd like to point out that when FFR was told to take down copyrighted content in the past, it was when copyright law hadn't established itself like it has now. at this point in time, it's more mature so things are different now from what i have seen.

[Xiz]

Re: Fair Use / Copyright Law & FFR

And that is a really dangerous approach for osu! to take.

And as long as FFR did comply with such a request, honestly there isn't much of an issue I see in my eyes.

Like, if a user submits a file that we do not have permission for, the submitter agree sthat however spectacular their file is, it can be removed at any time in the senario where a record label / copyright holder of said works requests the removal.

[Fission]

Re: Fair Use / Copyright Law & FFR

i know it's dangerous, but the fact that it remains unchanged in it's offering for this long speaks pretty loudly.

also, i wouldn't mind some kind of agreement like the one you described between ffr and the simfile author as a supplement to the already in-place permission system.

[alloyus]

Re: Fair Use / Copyright Law & FFR

Keybeat was infinitely smaller than osu! when it was told to take down the konami/bemani songs, didnt read thread whatsoever except to skim this page but just because you have a small community-driven site doesn't mean it won't be targeted. I saw you say stuff like that has changed, too, and if that's true, then great Keybeat was definitely a couple of years ago, close to the same time FFR was down and told to provide proof for resonance

[benguino]

Re: Fair Use / Copyright Law & FFR

From the perspective of people on the osu forums:

https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/150066/hilit=copyright&start=0

[Fission]

Re: Fair Use / Copyright Law & FFR

i never said FFR won't be targeted, i said the likelihood is much smaller. you can't deny that osu! has been stepping on much bigger toes than konami/bemani for years now. as was already stated, if copyright holders still want to be really possessive, files will just get taken down.

the only problem i could see to this is everybody submits files that there isn't explicit permission for and lots of files start getting taken down.

EDIT: btw, that osu! thread is mostly speculation with nothing definitive to back it up.

[benguino]

Re: Fair Use / Copyright Law & FFR

Also, I found the thread that I started on osu about copyright but it didn't get much attention:

https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/140306?hilit=+copyright

I do find it a little silly that osu can get away with it while (possibly) making money while we at ffr have to acquire permissions for every single artist even though ffr isn't making a dime.

EDIT: Yeah, I know it's only speculation. I just wanted to give people a broader perspective on other people's views on the topic.